Chris Grant - Cavaliers GM

[OptimusPrime]

Waiters is inconsistent with his shot and turns the ball over too much, which is exactly why his PER sucks. Luckily, PER means nothing. When he improves on those two things he will be a borderline all star. If we don't trade him this year and we get to the playoffs, I think that is where a guy like him would blow up. He is already a very good clutch player having just finished one full season's worth of games. He is 13th in the NBA in 4th quarter scoring, shooting 45.3% with a +/- of +2.3.

Of the 12 guys in front of him, he shoots a better percentage from the field than:

Kevin Durant (43.1%)
Damian Lillard (42.1%)
Kyrie Irving (43.4%)
Carmelo Anthony (39.7%)
Paul George (41.8%)

And of the 12 guys in front of him, he has a higher +/- than:

James Harden (+1.3)
Kevin Durant (+1.8)
Damian Lillard (+1.4)
Kyrie Irving (-0.9)
Carmelo Anthony (+0.2)
Isaiah Thomas (+0.1)
LeBron James (+1.4)
Anthony Davis (+0.4)

That doesn't mean he is better than those players. It means in the 4th quarter he is on par with them. It means that once he improves the fundamentals that all young players come into the league needing to improve, his ceiling could still be higher than most of you could envision for him, regardless of what Hollinger's PER says he is.

 

[KI4MVP]

Waiters is inconsistent with his shot and turns the ball over too much, which is exactly why his PER sucks. Luckily, PER means nothing. When he improves on those two things he will be a borderline all star. If we don't trade him this year and we get to the playoffs, I think that is where a guy like him would blow up. He is already a very good clutch player having just finished one full season's worth of games. He is 13th in the NBA in 4th quarter scoring, shooting 45.3% with a +/- of +2.3.

Of the 12 guys in front of him, he shoots a better percentage from the field than:

Kevin Durant (43.1%)
Damian Lillard (42.1%)
Kyrie Irving (43.4%)
Carmelo Anthony (39.7%)
Paul George (41.8%)

And of the 12 guys in front of him, he has a higher +/- than:

James Harden (+1.3)
Kevin Durant (+1.8)
Damian Lillard (+1.4)
Kyrie Irving (-0.9)
Carmelo Anthony (+0.2)
Isaiah Thomas (+0.1)
LeBron James (+1.4)
Anthony Davis (+0.4)

That doesn't mean he is better than those players. It means in the 4th quarter he is on par with them. It means that once he improves the fundamentals that all young players come into the league needing to improve, his ceiling could still be higher than most of you could envision for him, regardless of what Hollinger's PER says he is.

PER is factoring in the very areas he needs to improve. When he improves those (and starts getting foul calls), his PER will also improve. The one thing PER doesn't attempt to factor in, though, is his defense, which is getting very good.

 

[Cavatt]

Ok but the way this team is constructed and the phase we are in right now we can't wait two more seasons for TT and Dion to reach the level that we expect them to.

I don't want to quote the whole post, but is it surprising that TT and Dion aren't on Kyrie's level? He had historic numbers his first year. Not everyone comes into the league dominating and this has been repeated a lot. I would trade both of them for a bonafide allstar, but I think because they are trending up, we could probably get even more from them next year, or find out they are almost ready and keep them.

I don't disagree with trading guys because you don't normally contend without filling some holes with some of your draft assets and picks. That's why it is

1. draft
2. Trades
3. Free agency

That grant is trying to build from. Maybe Grant didn't get the best of all possible scenarios each time he drafted, but he has at least 3 very tradeable assests in Dion, Tristan, and Zeller in that order of importance. None of them are busts or stiffs so we will get a return on them, or they will will develop into long term pieces. I truly am not suggesting stand pat and watch the chips roll in, but I am saying that guys on the upswing are not something to constantly complain about. They are still valuable.

 

[Cavatt]

Waiters is inconsistent with his shot and turns the ball over too much, which is exactly why his PER sucks. Luckily, PER means nothing. When he improves on those two things he will be a borderline all star. If we don't trade him this year and we get to the playoffs, I think that is where a guy like him would blow up. He is already a very good clutch player having just finished one full season's worth of games. He is 13th in the NBA in 4th quarter scoring, shooting 45.3% with a +/- of +2.3.

Of the 12 guys in front of him, he shoots a better percentage from the field than:

Kevin Durant (43.1%)
Damian Lillard (42.1%)
Kyrie Irving (43.4%)
Carmelo Anthony (39.7%)
Paul George (41.8%)

And of the 12 guys in front of him, he has a higher +/- than:

James Harden (+1.3)
Kevin Durant (+1.8)
Damian Lillard (+1.4)
Kyrie Irving (-0.9)
Carmelo Anthony (+0.2)
Isaiah Thomas (+0.1)
LeBron James (+1.4)
Anthony Davis (+0.4)

That doesn't mean he is better than those players. It means in the 4th quarter he is on par with them. It means that once he improves the fundamentals that all young players come into the league needing to improve, his ceiling could still be higher than most of you could envision for him, regardless of what Hollinger's PER says he is.

And most importantly the eye test confirms this. Dion is a dynamic player who can win you a game and get to the bucket at will.

 

[Tornicade]

Ok but the way this team is constructed and the phase we are in right now we can't wait two more seasons for TT and Dion to reach the level that we expect them to.

It really comes down to this. Kyrie is our best player and we need to take advantage of the fact that he's still on his rookie deal (soon to be offered an extension) and he's an All Star right now. Not a potential All Star like Dion and TT. He's an All Star right now. It would be great if Dion and TT could become All Stars in two seasons but what about now?

If Kyrie is our only All Star player for the next two seasons then how good do you expect us to be?

How much better in two seasons will Dion and TT be than they are now? I see them both as decent role players and their ceiling is fringe All Stars depending on how the state of the league is with injuries like this season which will take at least sure fire All Stars out of the game this year and allow a guy like Jeff Teague or Aaron Afflalo to make the team.

One other thing that you forget to mention is if Dion and TT do become fringe All Stars than they are gonna command market value for their extensions. I'm sorry but from what I've seen from TT and Dion I'm not willing to shell out Taj Gibson money to TT or Klay Thompson (when he gets his extension) money to Dion. TT and Dion are young and I understand that but look at this

Kyrie - Our max player, our top dollar guy
Deng - If we sign him to a long term extension then he's most likely our 3rd option which is fine because he played that role well in CHI with Rose and Boozer

Now here is where things get tricky.

There has to be another All Star player on this team who's a second option to Kyrie. I'll only list players who I think we have a realistic chance at acquiring

C - Marc Gasol, Monroe, Cousins, Brook Lopez
PF - Love, Horford, Bosh, Blake Griffin
SG - Lance Stephenson, Klay

Assuming we have Kyrie and Deng for the future than that 3rd wheel so to speak will be a PF, C, or SG

Remember Chris Grant didn't assemble this team to keep all of these young guys. if some of them out perform their expectations than that will increase the return we'll get for trading them. We have to start looking at the players on this roster not named Kyrie or Deng as assets. That's what they are. None of them have displayed the ability or showed from what I've seen (and probably Chris Grant) that they can be that second All Star player to pair with Kyrie long term. If they did than we would be a hell of a lot better than we are right now.

You can't watch this team and honestly say that Dion or TT who are our next two best players when you factor in age next to Kyrie .

We better damn well be. we spent three years on this fucking tank.

Grant specifically said the plan was to assemble a young core and allow them to grow together. Dengs acquisition is exactly that . allowing the youth to grow together. Cavs can upgrade or make another acquisition and improve without sacrificing their core.

at some point these prime veterans being acquired are gonna get old and drop. thats when you want this guys entering their prime.

There is an urgency to get to playoffs and its not to win a championship in the next two years. of course that would be awesome but the goal right now is to put the cavs in a position to contend but first make the playoffs.

One thing the Cavs dont need to do is try and force the issue and make a bad move. let not dp the ron harper thing all over again. been there done that

 

[Cavatt]

The team is not looking so mismatched right now. Chemistry? It was rough, but there isn't a gaping hole at the sf, and it looks like the guys are trusting one another. I'll be more optimistic once they win against a good team on the road. Baby steps.

 

[MNCavsfan]

The team is not looking so mismatched right now. Chemistry? It was rough, but there isn't a gaping hole at the sf, and it looks like the guys are trusting one another. I'll be more optimistic once they win against a good team on the road. Baby steps.

We were 2-15 going into tonight on the road. At this point, a win against an awful team on the road gets me excited.

 

[Snarly]

We were 2-15 going into tonight on the road. At this point, a win against an awful team on the road gets me excited.

Hell they should be able to win all the road games except the Blazers they way they are playing. This team Is hitting OKC stride when they started to turn It around. I am excited again. Grant Is one Big move away aka star player from a title contender and wow It feels good to say that again.

 

[oasis05]

10 game winning streak coming. Thank you chris grant. I was wrong about you. You will not be fired. Instead you will get us another big man, and we will charge hard into the play offs. We won't even remember Embiid with the big man you're about to bring us.

On a side note the grilled stuft nacho at taco bell is amazing. Limited time, check your local taco bell for availability.

 

[Snarly]

10 game winning streak coming. Thank you chris grant. I was wrong about you. You will not be fired. Instead you will get us another big man, and we will charge hard into the play offs. We won't even remember Embiid with the big man you're about to bring us.

On a side note the grilled stuft nacho at taco bell is amazing. Limited time, check your local taco bell for availability.

Do you work for Taco Bell? :chuckles: I will try one soon though they look awesome. As for your Bold statement the Nacho may have went to your head but I hope you are right.

 

[oasis05]

And just a fyi the special sauce on a big mac is thousand island dressing.

 

[czvo]

10 game winning streak coming. Thank you chris grant. I was wrong about you. You will not be fired. Instead you will get us another big man, and we will charge hard into the play offs. We won't even remember Embiid with the big man you're about to bring us.

On a side note the grilled stuft nacho at taco bell is amazing. Limited time, check your local taco bell for availability.

Ugh... that thing was terrible... and I was drunk when I ate it too.

 

[oasis05]

Well it's a working man's nacho.

 

[Kouki]

Just kind of thinking aloud here...pretend we stick with our current roster and that the players develop nicely over the next two years. Maybe not 100% to their ceilings. But pretend Kyrie gets to 22/8 with great efficiency, Dion gets more consistent off the bench averaging 18 or so, CJ gets moderately consistent, Tristan starts taking (and hitting) jumpers consistently...Deng and Varejao don't fall off a cliff...could the roster be a championship contender?

May not have a "big three" but with Kyrie and Dion dropping 40 in the backcourt, Deng and Miles combining for 25-30, TT and Andy combining for 20-25. Add in defense from Mike Brown and a front court of Deng/TT/AV...perhaps the only thing standing in our way in the East is Hibbert.

Maybe I'm riding a combined wave of a two-game win streak, the trade for Deng making our roster mostly well-rounded (finally), and a bit of alcohol. I think its fun to think about though, since the guys we have now are likable and I'd hate to get rid of them.

 

[Zen]

Just kind of thinking aloud here...pretend we stick with our current roster and that the players develop nicely over the next two years. Maybe not 100% to their ceilings. But pretend Kyrie gets to 22/8 with great efficiency, Dion gets more consistent off the bench averaging 18 or so, CJ gets moderately consistent, Tristan starts taking (and hitting) jumpers consistently...Deng and Varejao don't fall off a cliff...could the roster be a championship contender?

May not have a "big three" but with Kyrie and Dion dropping 40 in the backcourt, Deng and Miles combining for 25-30, TT and Andy combining for 20-25. Add in defense from Mike Brown and a front court of Deng/TT/AV...perhaps the only thing standing in our way in the East is Hibbert.

Maybe I'm riding a combined wave of a two-game win streak, the trade for Deng making our roster mostly well-rounded (finally), and a bit of alcohol. I think its fun to think about though, since the guys we have now are likable and I'd hate to get rid of them.

Assuming they all evolve and continue to improve I still think you are one piece off. It could still be very strong though.