Connecticut School Shooting

[jhard]

Just remember the gun doesn't pull the trigger.
The moron who has an issue pulls the trigger.

The Gun talk should go in another thread.

 

[Pick6]

How can you guys sit there and say that guns have NOTHING to do with this situation? They might not account for the entire story, but I assure you, the lack of gun contol, ineffective gun laws, and the fact that any mentally ill individual is able to purchase a firearm - is very much part of the problem.

We must re-evaluate our ideals. I am not going to offer any specific suggestions and I do not want to incite a political debate here because the focus and attention truly needs to lie with the victims and their families right now.

Here is what you must do in Connecticut to buy a gun:

It is unlawful to sell or permanently transfer a handgun to any person who is forbidden to possess a handgun, or to a person under 21.


No person, firm, or corporation shall sell or transfer any pistol or revolver unless an application provided by the Commissioner of Public Safety is filled out. There is a 2 week waiting period from the date of the application.


A handgun eligibility certificate, valid for five years, shall be issued by the Commissioner of Public Safety within 60 days after receipt of the National Criminal History Records check from the FBI to a person who may lawfully possess a handgun, who completes a handgun safety course, is fingerprinted, and pays a fee.

Did these requirements make a difference?

 

[AZ_]

self defense?
them being illegal/"harder to get" wont make a difference (see drugs)?

What are you defending yourself from?

A Soviet rebellion?

 

[Scholar]

yes, in the hood. to stop kids from hurting each other.

not to stop others from entering schools.

That is not true at all. There are security guards, metal detectors, and often locked doors at Cleveland public schools in the West Park and Kamm's Corners areas of the city. I would hardly consider that the hood.

 

[Pick6]

What are you defending yourself from?

A Soviet rebellion?

You have to be kidding me.

 

[bushwick_bill]

My girlfirend's sister works at a school near to where the shootings happened. Very scary...

 

[Phills14]

Here is what you must do in Connecticut to buy a gun:



Did these requirements make a difference?

The problem isn't necessarily going to Dick's Sporting Goods and buying a gun. Those laws at least slow people down from getting guns. It's other ways, legal ways, of getting guns that are scary.

Easy Access: $5,000 and One Hour Buys 10 Guns

By NARIA HALLIWELL
RICHMOND, Va., April 9, 2009

The two-year anniversary of Virginia Tech, the largest massacre by a sole gunman in the country's history, is only one week away.

In the two years since, what has changed, what has been fixed, and what has stayed exactly the same?

Immediately following the tragedy, Virginia Governor Tim Kaine and other authorities called on lawmakers to close the so called "gun show loophole" -- by which anyone can buy a gun from a private dealer with no background check and no questions asked. Two years later, that loophole is still very much open, in Virginia and 32 other states around the country.

So just how easy is it to buy a gun at a gun show?

The Challenge: To Buy a Gun in One Hour

For over a year, ABC News has followed Omar Samaha on a very personal quest to hold those lawmakers to their word. Omar's sister Reema was one of 32 shot and killed at Virginia Tech. We went with Omar to a gun show in Richmond, Va. -- one of hundreds held every weekend across the state of Virginia and the country. We gave Samaha $5,000 and one hour to see how many guns he could buy, and how many questions he would be asked.

By 9:30 in the morning, the parking lot was already packed full of cars. Groups of men, couples and even families with children in tow streamed toward the quickly growing line out front. Samaha, 25, joined the crowds and while waiting on line, he was approached by a seller and given the opportunity to make a quick purchase. He bought a Glock handgun, with no background check, and no questions asked.

"He was just sitting right outside the door, I went up to him. 'How much do you want for it?'

"'$450 bucks.'

'Here's the cash.'

'Thanks. See you later.'

"That was it."

For Samaha, the Glock handgun was a particularly painful purchase. It was the same kind of gun used to kill his sister Reema when she was a freshman at Virginia Tech. Just holding the gun in his hand was difficult.

"I don't want to think about how gruesome it was and how somebody used this type of weapon on my sister and so many other innocent people. It's devastating," he said.

Buying Guns: No Background Check Required

Samaha walked back into the gun show, and within minutes he was out again, this time carrying a Colt AR 15, a semi-automatic assault weapon very similar to an M16. We asked if there were any questions asked.

"Nothing," he said. "I just went up, gave him cash. He's like, 'Cash is all you need.'"

Over the course of the hour, Samaha purchased 10 guns: three rifles, four shotguns, one handgun. He could have purchased many more handguns, but he wanted to abide by Virginia State law, which allows the purchase of one handgun per month, and two assault weapons.

Samaha was never asked to fill out any type of background check. At one point he was asked to show identification. When Samaha said he didn't have any, the seller quickly relented, not wanting to lose a sale.

"He's like, 'Give me $100 more and I'll let you go and take the risk.' I got two guns for $600 without any identification check," Samaha said.

Not only did Samaha buy 10 guns in one hour with incredible ease and no questions, he could have turned around and sold those same guns right in the parking lot. In fact, while standing next to his trunk full of guns, Omar was approached by a man who thought he was a seller. Omar knew the gun show loophole existed, but he was still shocked by how easy it was for him to buy guns with no questions asked.

"Anybody can do it," Samaha said. "And it's for real. It's that easy. Anyone. Someone who's adjudicated mentally ill, someone who's a known felon. Someone who has a history of crime. I think people don't realize how easy it really is."

In fact, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reports in their investigations that private sellers at gun shows are a major source of gun crime in the country. In the two years since Reema's death, Samaha has fought hard to get the loophole closed in his home state of Virginia.

He has lobbied lawmakers, spoken publicly about his sister and even launched an online campaign about the dangers of guns on campus. A law to close the gun show loophole has come up twice in the Virginia State legislature, and twice the body has voted against the bill, even though it was one of the key recommendations to come out of Kaine's Virginia Tech Review Panel.

When Virginia lawmakers voted against closing the loophole, Samaha was shocked. "It really made me wonder what kind of people we have making our laws," he said.

Among those who voted twice against closing the gun show loophole is state John S. Edwards, a Virginia Democrat who represents the district that includes Virginia Tech. After repeated attempts to reach Edwards, the state senator did not respond to calls from ABC News.

Gun rights groups don't want to see the loophole closed because they fear that background checks will hurt business at gun shows, and also threaten privacy rights. They also argue that the Virginia Tech shooter didn't buy his gun at a gun show. Seung Hui Cho bought his gun legally at a gun store even though he had a documented history of mental illness. That breakdown in the system was addressed immediately following Virginia Tech, but families of the victims argue that with the gun show loophole still open, it is just too easy to buy a gun with no questions asked.

For Samaha, it's not about the right to own a gun, it's about how easy it is for guns to end up in the wrong hands.

"We're not trying to keep guns out of the hands of good citizens. If you can pass a background check, which anyone can do in a matter of minutes, then you can buy guns," he said.

'None of Them Could Have Stopped Him'

Former ATF agent Gerald Nunziato was with Samaha at the gun show in Richmond, Va. With years of experience fighting gangs and drug organizations, Nunziato was all too familiar with the guns that Samaha bought.

"My experience as an agent in Detroit and Miami is that these guns [shotguns] would be sawed off at the barrel," he said. "They're a very high-powered scatter gun that's used a lot by drug gang members 'cause they're easy to get in and out of your car."

Even though Samaha immediately turned in all the weapons he bought at the gun show to the Richmond Police Department, Nunziato pointed out that if Samaha had wanted to, he could have caused a lot of damage with the guns he purchased.

There were three or four police cars in the parking lot [at the gun show]. None of them could have stopped him [Samaha] with the firepower he bought," said Nunziato.

For Samaha, it's all about honoring his sister Reema's memory and working to prevent another tragedy from happening again.

"I think I'm doing something she would do," he said. "I think she would be proud of me and tell me to keep going."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7297745#.UMt6xKzNlS0

 

[Pick6]

The problem isn't necessarily going to Dick's Sporting Goods and buying a gun. Those laws at least slow people down from getting guns. It's other ways, legal ways, of getting guns that are scary.

So what is your suggestions to prevent that from happening? Make it "illegal"? How is that going to stop people from selling them privately? How was the drug war worked out? What about prohibition?

 

[ohiorulez]

Crazy people do crazy things and nothing can stop them.

China school knife attack
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57559179/china-school-knife-attack-leaves-23-injured/

 

[Ohio]

Fucked up world.

Here's the shooter:

http://www.facebook.com/rlanza?fref=ts

Reports of his Mom being found dead in her home in New Jersey

 

[Phills14]

So what is your suggestions to prevent that from happening? Make it "illegal"? How is that going to stop people from selling them privately? How was the drug war worked out? What about prohibition?

Well gun shows and other avenues like that should be highly regulated. How hard would it be to make everyone register ahead of time and pass a background check in order to enter a gun show? Is that really stomping on privacy laws?

I will agree with you, casual sales between private citizens would be hard if not impossible to police. I'm not sure anything can be done to stop that.

 

[The Oi]

You really have to take a step back and wonder.

Are we this lazy as a society to not find the root psychological issues of what is causing this outpouring of violence and vitriol, instead spending millions upon millions of dollars to secure elementary schools from domestic terrorism?

I'm sorry, but I just can't wrap my head around that as a sensible mechanism for stopping the violence.

Not sure where you're getting the laziness aspect from in terms of having armed security guards at schools...which is already commonplace. And I'm interested in what other solution you have to "fix" the problem. And I'm not sure why you'd claim that whatever solution you have can't go hand in hand with protection for students.

Well...what's causing it in your opinion? And how do you stop whatever it is from causing it.

The root psychological issues IMO are generally going to relate to either or both of (a) chemical mental imbalance or (b) serious abuse by parents or individuals they interact with on a regular basis. There's early detection of chemical imbalances and either/both of medicating or locking them up in an asylum to protect society from them. But there's also the onus on the individuals to take their meds (look at Delonte West) and to lock them up they generally (but not always) have to have committed some kind of act and been arrested for it. The issue for me is that even if you're sending these people to psychologists and hospitals...you still have to trust that they're going to take care of themselves as part of whatever therapy they undergo. And many don't...

As for abuse...there's sick people out there who abuse children or relatives when they're young and cause life-long mental issues for them. There's also bullying at all ages (even adulthood)- which SEEMS largely preventable- but that may be better left to a responsible teacher to determine.

Then there's just life in general...sometimes all it takes is the right situation like a lay off, break up or death to set someone off the deep end who may have had the personality and risk factors that could lead to a mental breakdown. You can't really prevent life.

Armed security guards aren't the solution to the problem. The PROBLEM is people and the solution is...people like this not being exposed to society. Problem is, you can't catch them all early.

The only thing armed guards could do is slow someone down once they're already committing the act.

 

[Ohio]

Fucked up world.

Here's the shooter:

http://www.facebook.com/rlanza?fref=ts

Reports of his Mom being found dead in her home in New Jersey

Source:

@NBCNews BREAKING: Alleged# Newtown, Connecticut school shooter's parent found dead in a home in NJ - @PeteWilliamsNBC

 

[Chardon]

KEEP THE GUN TALK IN THE GUN THREAD.

Jeez, is it that hard?

What happened is awful. I feel so bad for those affected by this.

 

[Huber.]

You have to be kidding me.

He's not. The whole reason they came up with the second amendment was to defend yourself against other countries and so the government couldn't become too powerful. Obviously a tired out amendment.

So what is your suggestions to prevent that from happening? Make it "illegal"? How is that going to stop people from selling them privately? How was the drug war worked out? What about prohibition?

Didn't know you could grow and cook up guns.