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Countries challenging the U.S.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by KCOTT, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    Some stuff going on in the world that doesn't really pop up in the main stream news, especially with the elections previously going on. I hear about some of these things, then usually google it to find a published story about it. One of the articles I already posted in the North Korea thread, but I'll also include it here. I'll try to keep this thread up to date with different world happenings. I think it might be worth a discussion because other countries are starting to step their game up and are no longer intimidated by the U.S. As some of our international adversaries improve themselves in addition to our declining military and international impact, this will be something both the current President and future ones will have to deal with.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/20121182048162355.html


    http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...cording-to-us-defense-officials#ixzz2BhA4CeYu


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/23/philippines-china-ships-scarborough-shoal


    http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20120619-353755/3.html


    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2012/07/201273093650328417.html

    Video discussing the standoff and China's military growth
    http://aje.me/Q3LBOn



    Some interesting tidbits, Iran shooting at our drones has actually happened before. The article talking about Russia last visiting us in 2009 is not entirely true, the nuclear class Akula was actually in the Gulf of Mexico this summer. Also, China is greatly stepping up its presence in the Pacific and literally took the Scarborough reef from the Philippines and they have asked us for help against China. We remain a bystander and this is still going on right at the moment.
     
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  2. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    http://www.news.com.au/news/new-j-3...ce/story-fnejlrpu-1226510035659#ixzz2BhH2OudC
     
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  3. gourimoko

    gourimoko Fighting the good fight!

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    This might sound crazy, but I firmly believe America should be proactive in preventing Chinese dominance in Asia or even worldwide. What might be necessary is a trade war, a cyber war, clandestine operations and sabotage. Think suxtnet, but several orders of magnitude greater involvement.

    I would be willing to use the full gamut of American covert forces, with carte blanche to do whatever is necessary, in order to preserve American superiority both economically and militarily.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  4. bigfoot5415

    bigfoot5415 The Original HN3108

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    My aunt works at the pax river air base and works on quite a few top secret projects. Apparently it is common knowledge that Chinese intelligence sits in "shrimp boats" in the bay and watches top secret planes take off. Theyve been doing it for years and no one stops them. Last year they acctually caught a college age couple right off the edge of the landing strip taking pics. When they asked them who they were they claimed to be lost. However, in order to get to the strip they had to swim about 40 yards out and around water up to their neck bc of the fences and surveillance.
     
  5. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    Hell, why not just invade? We are in good shape for a war with China. The American people are ready for hyperinflation and non stop blood shed in the name of spreading democracy to countries that are already more free than we are.

    I don't know what happened to you in the Obama campaign. You used to be reasonable. Now you are just like your Dear Leader ready to sacrifice other people's lives in the name of empire and ready to have the government assume control of every aspect of our lives.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
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  6. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    What? He is calling for acts of war against China. We are already bankrupt. How do you think a war with them would go?
     
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  8. TAS

    TAS -____-

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    Agh..I didn't peg you for a realist, Gourimoko.


    I'll give you 5 reasons why China will not look to expand influence into Asia:

    1. The political system in China is very fragile. The legitimacy of many East Asian states, such as China, hinge on their ability to produce high economic growth. The Chinese Communist Party main focus is economic growth.

    2. The United States has the ability to exert power and influence through its international financial institutions. China does not have any effective mechanisms or institutions to tackle conflicts or disagreements in the region to be considered a leader. Also, many elites in China have bought into the ideas and values of what the current international order has to offer them. Just like any political system, a government cannot rule without the consent of the elites.

    3. Even though the Chinese economy will overtake the United States by 2016 to become the largest economy in the world, if you consider their economy per-capita wise, the Chinese are still a poor developing state. China still receives billions in aid every year.

    4. The Chinese export economy is heavily dependent on American consumerism. Think about this, Wal-Mart alone does $19 Billion worth of trade with China - which is bigger than Australia, Canada and Russia. American firms are the number one reason for the rise in Chinese export and the US trade deficit with China. No Democrat or Republican has any power over this.

    5. The Chinese have overexposed themselves by the large amount of US debt they helped finance. They need the United States dollar to strengthen to get a return on their investment.

    Also, lets not forget that the United States military expenditure is more than the next 15 powers combined.

    So don't worry Americans, you still rule the world.
     
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  9. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    do you always come up with the most ridiculous conclusions?
     
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  10. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    A war with China would be a huge mistake, in any sense. History would be a good frame of reference here; historically, China has never been interested in expansion. Most of our debt is owned by either China or Japan. But someone saying we should try to restrict China's international influence is about 5 steps shy of invasion. The modern military doesn't fight over wars with powerful nations, we fight discreetly. Make no mistake, there has been a very contentious battle of sabotage and devotion between America and China for a decade, and simply leaving China alone would be disastrous.
     
  11. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    Restricting China's influence, which is none of our business anyway, is one thing. Trade wars, cyber wars, sabotage, and covert operations are actual acts of war which will inevitably lead to an invasion by one side or the other.
     
  12. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    Sabotage is already happening, on both sides. Hacking is a significant tool being used by our military right now. And so long as these countries' futures are so economically intertwined, invasion is far from a possibility. Of course, China can benefit if America's dollar collapses, and is no longer a sturdy international currency. There is already a great deal of subterfuge in the world at play, and it is important America stays persistent and ahead of the curve there, because its where an economic war is won or lost in the 21st century.
     
  13. The Voice

    The Voice Best in the World

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    If we went to war with China, I doubt we'd have any intent in paying them any of our debt back that they own.
     
  14. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    It would be far more complicated than that. Right now we borrow at a greater rate than we pay on our loans, and they would also stop letting us borrow their money. Trade between the countries would cease, and inevitably every country in the world would be forced to take a side in a conflict that significant. Many US companies run factories in China, and those industries would be annexed by China, those companies would lose a ton of collatoral and would, in many cases, immediately go bankrupt. Chinese investments in the stockmarket would be blocked, they'd be refused right-to-sell bankrupting Chinese investors, and similarly US investors would be blocked from selling stocks in the SSE, and would also risk running bankrupt or losing significant amounts of wealth. The economic future of these countries is strongly intertwined right now.
     
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  15. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    There are certainly better ways to "stay ahead of the curve". We could quit printing money if we didn't want our currency to be at the mercy of international markets. That would have the added bonus to stopping the increase in wealth disparity in this country.

    Trade wars and cyber wars will do nothing but bring us closer to total war. Not to mention a trade war would just decimate the already waning standard of living in this country. If we need to do something discrete to thwart subterfuge on their part then we have the right to defend ourselves, but outright instigating trouble with them is just foolish.
     
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  16. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Back in 2002

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    If we went to war with China, we wouldn't be paying back any of our debt to anyone. No one would accept the dollars we would try to give them.
     
  17. Mdog1

    Mdog1 NBA Starter

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    I respect Gour's opinion, and he is right China will be the most dominant country in the world shortly if it's not stopped, but going to war with China would be a disaster, and would likely literally be the end of the world lol.
     
  18. Pyro

    Pyro Banned

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    China needs the US, just like we need China. I'd say there is a mutual respect between the two countries. We hate each other, we respect each other, but we need each other.
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Welcome to the Future

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    War with China would be a nightmare. Good grief. Thankfully, it is not even a remote possibility.
     
  20. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    nobody locates air contacts in real time using space-based IR

    and even if we did, it's not like you're going to be in a dogfight and figure out where the other one is using IR from outer space
     

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