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D League stuff I found interesting...

Discussion in 'Around The NBA' started by MikeOC33, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. MikeOC33

    MikeOC33 Cavs Fanatic

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    I have a long-time friend who is a former college coach and first time asst coach on one of the NBDL teams, and I am going to one of their away games Friday. I don't really follow the league that close, but I thought I'd look at the stats out of curiosity and then later I spoke to my friend on the phone...

    It is interesting to see some of the names of players in the league who me and many others on RCF have debated that the Cavs should draft or look at... Fab Melo, Dorian Lamb, Chris Douglas Roberts, Josh Selby, Donatas Motiejunas, Miles Plumlee, etc., and to see how the ex-Cavs players are doing too... Samuel Samardo, Luke Harangody, Jon Leuer, Donald Sloan, Jamario Moon, Christian Eyenga, Kevin Jones, etc.

    For right now, Harangody, Leuer, and Kevin Jones are statistically 2nd, 3rd, and 4rth in the league in rebounding. Kevin Jones is 5th in scoring, Sloan is 9th and Harangody is 10th scoring.

    Apparently Sloan turned down an offer this morning to play in China, but recently Christian Eyenga accepted an offer to China. Guess it was for $250,000... but he has to pay a $50,000 mid-season buyout to go. That'll be another learning experience for him for sure!

    According to my friend here are some other points about the NBDL... some of you might know this, to some like me it was news.

    The NBA pays all the NBDL salaries, but each team has an equal "firm" cap.... they can exceed the cap but that comes out of the NBDL teams pocket to go over. Some of the teams are owned/sponsered by a pro team or teams (Clev Cavs - Canton Charge), some are independant of any specific NBA team, and some are connected to multiple NBA teams... not sure if for example the Canton Charge exceed the cap if the Cavs cover that or if it is still the Charge's expense....

    There are 3 player pay scales... A, B, C. The A scale is somewhere in the low $30,000.... ($32,500?), the B scale is in the $20,000's, and the C scale is low teens ($13,000?) spread out over 10 pay periods. Surprisingly, but it seems fair, the NBA guys who are sent down (Harangody, Sloan, etc) are paid the C scale.... because they are generally still under contract with the NBA...much bigger pay and which also includes their per day meal stipend ($125 per day I think). The NBDL stipend is $40 per day.

    Each team generally pays 2 A contracts, 3-4 B contracts, and the rest C. The A contracts are generally given to their best player who has not made the big show. Also, on the road players share hotel rooms, except the players with the NBA contracts... they get their own room, and they are also given 1st dibs on the 1st class air tickets that occasionally open up. The rest of the team rides coach. Always.

    Ticket prices are surprisingly high... some teams charge $100 for floor seats, and $20-$30 general admission ticks are common... (heh, heh... I get mine for freebie!) Most of the ticket money covers the teams travel expenses and the in-game entertainment. The teams that do better in attendance spend more for give-aways and entertainment... $2500+ for half-time entertainment is not uncommon.

    If some of this was posted before, my apologies. Just thought it was worth sharing.
     
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  2. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    Definetly interesting stuff. I've been to a handful of Charge games. None this season but last year the games were very fun. Lots of fan stuff. Maybe it was two years ago.. Idk. It was during the lockout season and it was also the inaugural Charge season. Either way, they did lots of halftime and time out fan stuff and I wasn't sure if it was because A. Gilbert's money B. The norm for the D-League.
    But Ahmad wad there for hype man, the Cavs dance crew was there as well as the two Cav mascots.
     
  3. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    The d league is still in its infancy. The utilization of the D league by the NBA increases every year and I believe should continue to grow.

    The majority of the players there could be getting paid more somewhere but choose the d league to get a shot at the big ticket. Solid D league play can also turn into biggr offers from those European teams.


    Although there are some big city markets a d league team can be set up anywhere and be very viable. The pay scale and structure works because there isnt real big revenue for everyone to fight over. I also expect the Salary to start increasing at some point as the quality of play and revenue increases.
     
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  4. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    I was wondering something today and couldn't think of where to post it.. perhaps a new thread. But I didn't want to make another 3 post thread that dies away.

    Why hasn't the NBA switched to 15 minute quarters? You have to think there would be an increase in ad revenue. Probably an extra commercial break per quarter. The player union would be behind it. I'd imagine the contracts would have to increase to account for the increase in workload.. it's essentially an extra 20 games a year. You would think teams would have to add another bench spot to help eat up the extra 12 minutes a game. I think it would help with parity in the league. A team like the Heat wouldn't be as dominant because Lebron and Co. would still get their 36-40 min a game but that leaves 20-24 minutes of bench play compared to the 8-12 now a days. A strong bench would mean something in the playoffs because teams would need probably 9 guys to play per game instead of some 6 or 7 man rotations.

    Just something I was thinking of today? Feel free to move or branch off if you find it worthy.
     
  5. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    it would cost more money than revenue gained. Games are going from an 48 minutes to an hour. that 12 minutes would be at least another half hour. for the most part that extra 12 minutes is going to back ups. it really doesnt add anything to the game.
     
  6. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    I don't even think I'm sold on the idea. I just was curious and felt that it would make the game better.
     
  7. Cavatt

    Cavatt NBA Starter

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    One of the things that is troubling about the D-league is that only Alonzo has stuck, despite the team having the "cream of the crop" from the D-league. With Alonzo's success I was hoping for another Dleague gem, but I am much less confident now. It really shows how difficult it is to make it in the NBA.
     
  8. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    Cavs are going in the right direction with the d league. The problem..and i dont really consider it is a problem is that when a team is developing young talent and their roster is in flux . it is hard for a d leaguer to not only come in a contribute but establish himself in a very chaotic inconsistent environment.

    The Cavs d league program is being built just as the team is. The coaching staff really doesnt have time to invest in these guys and are using them more as stop gaps than anything else. Also The d league ideally is more of a place to harvest blue chip talent as opposed to finding blue chip talent.

    One thing the d league has done is marginalize the value of 2nd round picks to the Cavs.

    Once the teams coe has some years under its belt and Cavs have to start paying Premium dollar for their talent. That is really when the Cavs will be able to Canton to fully supplement their bench. which is a huge difference from trying to use d league players to supplement the roster as a whole

    Harangody was a guinea pig. Consider Jones and Selby Test subjects A and B.
     
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  9. Cavatt

    Cavatt NBA Starter

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    I hope you are right.
     
  10. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    The good thing about the Charge is it gives a guy like Selby the chance to get some play time instead of wearing a suit in Cleveland.
     
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  11. MikeOC33

    MikeOC33 Cavs Fanatic

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    Yeah, according to my friend, their focus is surprisingly not the development of the players... of course there is teaching on-going and practices, but he said their main goal is to make the D League playoffs first, and second is to get game minutes for the players that the parent team sent them with that purpose. He said the playoffs is a big deal for the team to be further promoted in the city, more court time and experience for the players, and a sign that the team is being run and coached the right way... which of course leads to more personal opportunities.

    And that is one of my friend's goal is to pad his resume... if his team is successful, or even if a player they had can make a splash in the pros (think Jeremy Lin) then that might be the bulleted point that puts him over the top of other candidates in an interview to land a future college HC position, or a higher profile asst position.

    In other conversations I asked about the differences between the college kids and D League men, and differences in game planning. He said the D league players are VERY motivated. Most are VERY professional, open to suggestions/instruction and realize the opportunity they have to try to get to THE league or back to the league. He also said that they usually only have to tell the players something once, and they get it... as opposed to college where it has to be repeated over and over for some of the kids. Rightly so there is a more seriousness to things, the coaches don't have to emphasize it... they know.

    For gameplanning, he said the big difference is scouting reports. In college he would spend 10-12 hours compiling a scouting report on their next opponent, now, maybe 3 hours max. This might be his last college coach wanted more, and the D League coach doesn't so much... but still... that, no recruiting trips, no need to monitor class attendance or tutoring... he said he gets to focus more on basketball... just as many long, long hours.... but in a different way.

    The other thing which is tough to control is the nature of the D League. I haven't gotten into the details of player transfers... for example, Leuer plays for Canton which is affiliated with Cavs. What happens if say Denver wanted Leuer... is it a trade between only the D league clubs, does his pro contract carry over, would Canton be compensated some how? The point is, they made a trade for a point guard from another D League team... but he was then called up almost immediately... so they lost his services, and presumably wasted whatever assets or money they used to get the PG. So they had to go make-shift for a while. At some point I'll ask how that all works.

    He's my friend first, so I don't want to just barrage him with questions about this stuff and try to squeeze out details (which we all find very interesting!)... I think its more fun and relaxing for him to talk to old friends about life, friends, family... anything but work for 15-20 minutes once in a while.... so I try to refrain... I gotta remember this is work for him and just a hobby and an interest for me ... for him its a lot of hours for consecutive days and not the M-Friday 8-4 stuff....but for me its just watching a few games here and there, and spending a an hour or so on RCF... so maybe he wants to avoid talking about work sometimes too.

    Had to laugh with him because although the team flies to most games (unlike college where long, long bus rides are not uncommon) the team is busing from one city to their next city... 6 hour bus ride. He said he'll be watching film like he always has, making phone calls, etc., but some of the players are griping about A 6 HOUR BUS RIDE... where again, in the pros... they woulda flown. Life in the D League fella. You don't like it, then do what you have to do to get to the Big Leagues.
     
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  12. wuck

    wuck Hustling on the inside Staff Member

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    This is fantastic stuff. Feels like a grainy ABA documentary or something.

    I'm curious to hear if the big-league club (Cavs) has heavy input when it comes to the type of offense/defensive strategy the D-League club runs. In other words, when we send a player down, are they working in the same sets and using the same terminology and all that? Just wondering to what extent it is function as a "minor league" club in that sense.

    I was familiar with the relative D-League salaries (though not the tiers). Most players would make more $ landing a 10-day contract in the NBA than playing for a full season riding buses in the D-league.
     
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  13. MikeOC33

    MikeOC33 Cavs Fanatic

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    Thanks... I thought it was interesting stuff too, and even tho I'm an NBA fan, I wasn't aware of the little quirks and was curious if anyone else was interested.

    Wuck, to your question about the Off/Def schemes.... much to my surprise the answer is no, at least for my friends team. It would make sense for Canton to try to employ similiar offensive sets and terminology as the Cavs... especially since it is so easy to move a player back and forth in a 1 hour car drive... but my friend was told before the season started that he can run any defense he wants. The head coach there is running the offense. This may be the norm or not... but for one team... nope. Again, for my friend, that is a big plus to add to the resume... but in the bigger picture... I sure hope Canton is on the same page as the Cavs... it would be idiotic to not have at least a small degree of coordination.

    And as for the salaries... yeah, its only like a 5 month job... so if you look at it like making $23,000 or $32,000 for 5 months work... its doable... but what do these mid-level D League guys do for income in the offseason... part time job at Home Depot in the lawn and garden section? And with the constant influx of young competition... whew... not an easy gig and a real reality check for guys who were THE man in college or HS.
     
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  14. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    When Scott talked about Harangody stepping and starting a game last year he said the transition was seemless and Harangody was on playing within the scheme as if he hadnt left at all. Im pretty sure the Cavs and Charge use the same terminology.

    CANTON —
    Cavaliers head coach Byron Scott called the ability to send Cleveland players to Canton for D-League playing time “invaluable,” and praised the job done by Charge head coach Alex Jensen.
    “Alex does a great job running a lot of the things we like to run, offense and defense,” Scott said. “He spends a lot of time with us in the offseason and before their season gets going. I think it’s really helped our guys since we run the same system.”

    http://www.cantonrep.com/charge/x173944996/Cavaliers-notebook-Cavs-find-benefits-of-Charge

    In regards to contracts. players sign with the league not the team. the teams can trade and swap rights but ultimately the player still is signed with the league. This allows the NBa team to call up any d league player regardless of team affiliation.

    Team affiliations is key in regards to where your sending the players to get play time and you have influence over how the d league to functions.. not many teams have complete control. 11 d legue teams are managed exclusively by NBA Franchises. The Cavs are one of that own and operate their d league franchise.
     
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  15. MikeOC33

    MikeOC33 Cavs Fanatic

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    So if say Harangody is in the D league, and his rights are swapped to another D team... the pro contract he signed with Clev is still valid if he is called up by a different NBA team?
     
  16. wuck

    wuck Hustling on the inside Staff Member

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    As I understand it:

    If someone like Selby (under contract with the Cavs) is assigned to Canton, I doubt he can be "traded" or "reassigned" to another D-L affiliate. Must stick with Canton. If he is traded by the Cavs to another NBA team, that new NBA team can decide whether to send him to the D-League (an affiliate team if they have one).

    Harangody was waived by the Cavs, but they still owe him the rest of the guaranteed money on his contract. He can play in the D-League after being waived, and I'm sure he can be shuffled around according to D-League rules. If he signs with a new NBA team, they don't assume the Cavs contract (they would have assumed the Cavs contract if they claimed him on waivers). Instead, the new NBA team negotiates a brand new contract with Harangody. Typically, it will be the minimum contract or something close for a player who passed through waivers. I believe Harangody then gets to 'double dip' (payments from Cavs and new team), although perhaps there are some restrictions to that. The new NBA team can assign Harangody to their D-league affiliate if they have one (or another D-league team).

    Basically, I don't think some D-league transactions are possible for players under NBA contract, and any transactions involving a contracted NBA player are going to flow through the NBA teams down to the D-league, not the other way around.
     
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  17. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    Just to try to simplify.

    a D league Contract means any NBA can call up a player. They sign a typical ten contract with the team that contracts with them. so getting "called" means a team signed them.

    on the other End a player with a NBA contract is under the contract terms of that individiual NBA team and they can only send that player down to the affiliated D league team.

    Harangody for instance was on "loan" to Canton as a NBA player. The d league didnt have any contract rights on harangody and could not send him to another d league team if they wanted to.

    Harrangody after being waived by an NBA team then signed directly to d league and was claimed by Canton a month after the Cavs Waived him. He was then as a Canton Charge D league player traded to Ft Wayne for Jujuan Johnson. In order for that to happen Harangody had to sign a d League contract.

    Also there was a rule change this year that replaced thelocal market roster rule and was replaced with allowing a d league franhise to have the rights of the last three players cut from their NBA affiliate. This means players will get to try out for an NBA team and if it doesnt work out they can play with that teams NBA affiliate. This allows the Cavs to cut a guy like Kevin Jones and see him in a locker room environment and on the court. although the Jones could of got called up with any team He was given guaranteed money by the Cavs which padded things in their favor to resign him once he showed the progress they were looking for.

    hmm i was trying to simplify things I beleive i failed on that measure.
     
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  18. wuck

    wuck Hustling on the inside Staff Member

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    It happens with every NBA-related contractual issue.

    :chuckles:
     
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  19. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    Last season the Charge GM was Wes Wilcox (if I remember) but he was also the Director of player development or something for the Cavs.. so I believe the Charge are ran like a farm system. But I believe that is the exception not the rule.
     
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  20. MikeOC33

    MikeOC33 Cavs Fanatic

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    Wuck and Tornicade, thanks for your explanations. Some of what you wrote, was confirmed last night talking to my friend, but you covered other areas too and I appreciate that.

    As regards the D league teams running the same Off and Def systems as "the parent club"... my friends team is affilated with 4 NBA teams... so that explains why they don't... which pro clubs system are they gonna run?? He also said the San Antonio D team (Austin Tx?) runs identical schemes as the Spurs including the same terminology... guess that should be no surprise... the Spurs organization just seems to be run ship-shape from top to bottom in a well thought-out fashion.

    Last night my friend pointed out that one of the asst coaches of one of the pro teams has been with their team for the last week... working with one of the players they had sent down... monitoring his attitude, running specific drills with him, etc. Kinda cool that this pro asst coach has also been working with and helping out any and all of the players on the team, no matter which team they are affiliated with, helping out the staff, and he was in the game huddles too. I wonder if he has been checking out the coaching staff too...

    I'll say this... the D league sure seems like a guard oriented league... not a lot of plays run for the bigs... they pretty much have to create their own opportunities through hustle down the floor or aggressive offensive rebounding.... certainly what would be expected of them to do anyway... but not a lot of plays run for them.
     
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