David Blatt is a former NBA coach

[oracio]

David Blatt - The Euro Invasion - 2015 version
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjzZh6-h9fM

 

[gym]

Because Americans don't view it the same way you do, and it's an American league?

We do not (most of us) consider international basketball remotely comparable to our own... That's why we don't watch it...

I don't want to go in loops about this, I will just try once again to clarify my point with an example from a field that's not BB.

If you would be the owner of a car company looking for a mechanic, you have two candidates, one is a top overachieving mechanic for ford or KIA, the other is a questionable mechanic that was fired after 2 years at Mercedes and then again after 1 year at BMW,
So who would be your pick out of the two?

Now if you chose the one from ford, would it be relevant if I told you "people driving BMW don't give a sh** about ford?

Now try to reconsider what I'm trying to claim in our case.

 

[gourimoko]

I don't think I read one single post on this thread claiming Euro ball is equivalent to the NBA, That would be insane.
The discussion is if Euro coaching experience is relevant and qualifying in the NBA, and how much so.

Generally to the same level that our collegiate sports are. I think the view is relatively the same across the board. It's why 20-something Euro guys still go through the draft and have NBA rookie seasons, even if they are talented stars in their home country.

And yes, a few people have said that the leagues are directly equivalent, but that there is only a talent gap with the players. I think this isn't true.

 

[gourimoko]

I'll take Pini Gershon, Zeliko Obradovich and Ettore Messina(who is Pop's assistant) over most of NBA's coaches except Pop and Rivers(and Blatt). Best coaches in the world are in the NBA? don't make me laugh. Best players? Ofcurse, by far.

Lol... I don't think your view is shared by most GMs and owners in the league. Sorry.

 

[gourimoko]

I don't want to go in loops about this, I will just try once again to clarify my point with an example from a field that's not BB.

If you would be the owner of a car company looking for a mechanic, you have two candidates, one is a top overachieving mechanic for ford or KIA, the other is a questionable mechanic that was fired after 2 years at Mercedes and then again after 1 year at BMW,
So who would be your pick out of the two?

Now if you chose the one from ford, would it be relevant if I told you "people driving BMW don't give a sh** about ford?

Now try to reconsider what I'm trying to claim in our case.

I get what your saying, but again, I reject the analogy. I don't think it fits the argument.

Again, the closest analogy to international ball, from an American perspective, is our collegiate level play (NCAA).

Blatt having 20 years overseas, I think, is directly analogous to a college coach having 20 years of NCAA experience.

But.. with that said, international sports might be behind NCAA in the sense that a successful NCAA college coach with 20 years of experience would be coveted by every team in the NBA -- this is certainly not analogous to international sports.

So while I might hold international play in a higher regard to the NCAA, the more I think about it, I doubt players and coaches and staff in the NBA feel the same way.

 

[gym]

Lol... I don't think your view is shared by most GMs and owners in the league. Sorry.

This might be changing in the near future, and yes largely depending on Blatt's success.
Having said that I don't think Pinny Gershon is at the same level.

 

[gourimoko]

This might be changing in the near future, and yes largely depending on Blatt's success.
Having said that I don't think Pinny Gershon is at the same level.

I think you're right about this, and with good reason.

I've been a long time advocate for adopting Euro style offensive systems in the league. I think you can really maximize your players and, analytically, increase your floor performance by optimizing how each player is used and in what situations.

What makes this difficult in this league though, is the very high salaries of star-level players. Teams have a difficult time juggling the cost of effective role players while paying their stars and remaining below the tax level.

 

[Douglar]

But.. with that said, international sports might be behind NCAA in the sense that a successful NCAA college coach with 20 years of experience would be coveted by every team in the NBA -- this is certainly not analogous to international sports.

Kind of off topc, but I don't know if a whole lot of owners beside Gilbert covet college coaches. The track record is pretty bad. How many big college coaches have made the jump to the NBA? A few dozen in 40 years maybe. Most wash out and don't last a year. How many had much success? I get Bill Fitch, Larry Brown, & Chuck Daly. So we got at least 3 there.

College is about the ability to teach X's and O's. Maybe 50% of an NBA coach's success comes from just getting buy-in from his multi-millionaire players. Might be even harder to translate college success into the NBA achievement that it would for euro coaches.

 

[Dribble]

Lol... I don't think your view is shared by most GMs and owners in the league. Sorry.

Well, not to say that i agree with what he wrote, but 20-30 years ago GMs and owners here in the NBA didn't think that euro players were any good, and many were snubbed, until the likes of Petrovic, Marciulionis, Divac, Kukoc and Sabonis came into the league and changed that perception, and after that, the league started to import young euro players like Nowitzki, Parker, Ilgauskas, Turkoglu, Ginobili (who played in europe), Stojakovic, Pau and Marc Gasol, etc.
What i'm trying to say is that the contemporary perceptions of owners and gms aren't necessarily the correct ones.
There are NBA coaches who value european coaches, whether it be coaches like Drew, Stotts and Carlisle who visited Europe (and Blatt) in order to exchange ideas, and learn from each other, or Pop, who admired Messina enough to make him his top assistant and his possible successor.
I mean, local fans aren't really interested in international and european basketball, but enough nba coaches are.

 

[gourimoko]

Kind of off topc, but I don't know if a whole lot of owners beside Gilbert covet college coaches. The track record is pretty bad. How many big college coaches have made the jump to the NBA? A few dozen in 40 years maybe. Most wash out and don't last a year. How many had much success? I get Bill Fitch, Larry Brown, & Chuck Daly. So we got at least 3 there.

College is about the ability to teach X's and O's. Maybe 50% of an NBA coach's success comes from just getting buy-in from his multi-millionaire players. Might be even harder to translate college success into the NBA achievement that it would for euro coaches.

I totally agree with the bolded.

My only point is that the top level NCAA might not leave their teams to join a rebuilding NBA team. They are comfortable where they are and enjoy an enormous degree of success both financially and publicly.

A highly successful NCAA coach is at a closer stature with a highly successful NBA coach in many circumstances, much more so than an international coach; at least, from an American perspective.

The fact that not many transition to the NBA might have more to do with the fact that many might consider it a lateral move that carries too much risk compared to staying in the NCAA.

 

[teamballer]

I don't believe for an instant that former NBA coaches couldn't land jobs in Europe.

Mark Jackson could give 2 shits about CSKA Moscow or Maccabi Tel Aviv.

Either club would drool at the opportunity to hire him.

Now this just reeks of ignorance. Show me one fan of a top team in Europe that would even want his team to consider Mark Jackson for the HC job of his/her team and I'll crown you the eternal winner of this thread.

 

[teamballer]

Do you guys seriously believe that the only reason there are no American coaches coaching top Euroleague team is that there are ZERO American coaches interested in these jobs? You gotta be kidding me.

The primary advantage NBA players have over players in the top European/international competition is athleticism. This is why you won't see Americans who are below average athletes succeed in the Euroleague. In coaching, athleticism is obviously a non-issue and it erases any advantage American coaches would have over their European counterparts. The coach's role in European basketball is much bigger than that of the NBA coach, so yes, coming over from Europe to the NBA is an adjustment. Coming from the NBA to Europe would be a much bigger adjustment. I assure you the top teams in Europe are not hiring any American coaches in the next decade.

 

[gourimoko]

Do you guys seriously believe that the only reason there are no American coaches coaching top Euroleague team is that there are ZERO American coaches interested in these jobs? You gotta be kidding me.

It's not easy to sell your family on moving to what many might not consider a first world country. Especially a country that has a considerably lower standard of living and that doesn't have English as it's first language. Most of Europe, and almost all of Russia, Israel and Asia would fit this description.

Most Americans would not consider living in those nations as a desirable opportunity. And again, this is coming from a guy who is well traveled and I enjoy living and working in those places.

But simply put, it is not as desirable a job as being an assistant coach on a franchise or working as a commentator.

No, American coaches do not want to coach in Europe.

The primary advantage NBA players have over players in the top European/international competition is athleticism.

And pure skill, and drive, and basketball I.Q., and talent., and everything else that goes along with being a successful basketball player.

This is why you won't see Americans who are below average athletes succeed in the Euroleague.

Lol..

In coaching, athleticism is obviously a non-issue and it erases any advantage American coaches would have over their European counterparts. The coach's role in European basketball is much bigger than that of the NBA coach, so yes, coming over from Europe to the NBA is an adjustment. Coming from the NBA to Europe would be a much bigger adjustment. I assure you the top teams in Europe are not hiring any American coaches in the next decade.

Yeah, I gotta agree with @Cassity14 , @Cashius X , and @Kizzle , this is baloney. Americans do not want to coach in Europe or Israel or Asia, generally. I think it more likely a Euro club would reach out to an American coach than the reverse being true.

 

[Cassity14]

Now this just reeks of ignorance. Show me one fan of a top team in Europe that would even want his team to consider Mark Jackson for the HC job of his/her team and I'll crown you the eternal winner of this thread.

Pot, meet Kettle.

I'd like to touch back on @Douglar 's point about college coaching as well. As big a part of the job as teaching is, recruiting is equally high. College coaches don't get to pick their talent in the NBA.

Even if a guy is given full control of roster decisions, things like the salary cap, draft position, and trade assets are still major factors that guys don't have to deal with in college. When they get to the NBA, they have to coach what's given to them (or available to them). Brad Steven is learning that the hard way (although he's doing an admirable job with what's been put on his plate, IMO).

It's for that reason that I'm even willing to give Euro head coaches a leg up on NCAA guys. David Blatt has been adapting his coaching to his personnel for a much longer time than a guy like Izzo or Coach K has.

Alright, with that out of the way, here's another reason failed NBA coaches aren't likely to go overseas: risk factor.

For the sake of continuity, we'll bring Mark Jackson back into this.

Jackson, despite all of the jokes that are made at his expense, currently has a fairly strong coaching portfolio on his plate. He took a bottom-feeder in the Warriors and got them to places they hadn't been in a long time. He developed Steph Curry into a superstar and built a foundation with Klay Thompson that is paying off now.

Most importantly, he taught those guys the meaning of defense - something European basketball lacks in spades compared to this league.

I really wanted David Blatt to be this team's coach as soon as this board brought him up. I'm wrong about a lot of shit on here, but I want to remember that moment.

That said, I would have been okay with Jackson.

I don't care what anyone says, Jackson could have his pick of multiple high profile jobs in Europe. Don't make me laugh trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Now, let's say he takes one of those jobs. Let's stay he has to break through a language barrier and adjust to a league different than the one he's been associated with for his entire adult life. Let's say this adjustment period manifests itself negatively in the W/L column.

Do you know what happens if Mark Jackson's team has a start like the Cavs did this year? If CSKA Moscow (to my knowledge, probably the heaviest favorite on a year-to-year basis over there) starts out below .500 and well below expectations?

His NBA head-coaching career, if not done in that instant, goes back 5+ years. He becomes a joke in NBA circles whether it's his fault or not. His stock drops lower than it's ever been, and probably will ever rise to again while he's over in Europe.

For what reward? Arguably none. That's why coaches here don't go overseas and are more comfortable hanging out on an NBA bench. That's why Larry Drew and Alvin Gentry would rather be assistants on contenders than trying to lead a team in Europe. There's literally no incentive to do so as long as they want to maintain career ties in the US.

 

[gourimoko]

Pot, meet Kettle.

I'd like to touch back on @Douglar 's point about college coaching as well. As big a part of the job as teaching is, recruiting is equally high. College coaches don't get to pick their talent in the NBA.

Even if a guy is given full control of roster decisions, things like the salary cap, draft position, and trade assets are still major factors that guys don't have to deal with in college. When they get to the NBA, they have to coach what's given to them (or available to them). Brad Steven is learning that the hard way (although he's doing an admirable job with what's been put on his plate, IMO).

It's for that reason that I'm even willing to give Euro head coaches a leg up on NCAA guys. David Blatt has been adapting his coaching to his personnel for a much longer time than a guy like Izzo or Coach K has.

Alright, with that out of the way, here's another reason failed NBA coaches aren't likely to go overseas: risk factor.

For the sake of continuity, we'll bring Mark Jackson back into this.

Jackson, despite all of the jokes that are made at his expense, currently has a fairly strong coaching portfolio on his plate. He took a bottom-feeder in the Warriors and got them to places they hadn't been in a long time. He developed Steph Curry into a superstar and built a foundation with Klay Thompson that is paying off now.

Most importantly, he taught those guys the meaning of defense - something European basketball lacks in spades compared to this league.

I really wanted David Blatt to be this team's coach as soon as this board brought him up. I'm wrong about a lot of shit on here, but I want to remember that moment.

That said, I would have been okay with Jackson.

I don't care what anyone says, Jackson could have his pick of multiple high profile jobs in Europe. Don't make me laugh trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Now, let's say he takes one of those jobs. Let's stay he has to break through a language barrier and adjust to a league different than the one he's been associated with for his entire adult life. Let's say this adjustment period manifests itself negatively in the W/L column.

Do you know what happens if Mark Jackson's team has a start like the Cavs did this year? If CSKA Moscow (to my knowledge, probably the heaviest favorite on a year-to-year basis over there) starts out below .500 and well below expectations?

His NBA head-coaching career, if not done in that instant, goes back 5+ years. He becomes a joke in NBA circles whether it's his fault or not. His stock drops lower than it's ever been, and probably will ever rise to again while he's over in Europe.

For what reward? Arguably none. That's why coaches here don't go overseas and are more comfortable hanging out on an NBA bench. That's why Larry Drew and Alvin Gentry would rather be assistants on contenders than trying to lead a team in Europe. There's literally no incentive to do so as long as they want to maintain career ties in the US.

This...

Great post.