David Blatt is a former NBA coach

[teamballer]

It's amazing to me that when comparing two different competitions, those who watch just one of those and have likely never watched the other can feel so confident "educating" those who regularly watch both competitions about the gaps between the two. There is literally no evidence to back up most of the claims that you guys are making aside from "'Murrica is number 1!" This has become pointless. I'm bowing out, but feel free to carry on.

 

[gourimoko]

It's amazing to me that when comparing two different competitions, those who watch just one of those and have likely never watched the other can feel so confident "educating" those who regularly watch both competitions about the gaps between the two. There is literally no evidence to back up most of the claims that you guys are making aside from "'Murrica is number 1!" This has become pointless. I'm bowing out, but feel free to carry on.

I watch some international ball. I watched some Maccabi and CSKA before Blatt was hired like a lot of the die hard RCF fans did.. I watched in order to study, not to be entertained, and I'd likely never watch them again. But honestly, most of the international basketball I watched was actually the Asian leagues (Philippines and China specifically), which I watched regularly when I lived in Asia.

But yeah, you're right, most of us do not watch international basketball... But did you ever ask yourself why?

Because it's boring.

When I watch Euro ball a lot of times I'm like, 'fuck, turn this shit off...' Rarely is it as entertaining as an NBA or NCAA game.

And just as you said you watch both but we watch only American sports so you're somehow more knowledgeable than us lowly Americans; I'd counter with, you came on the bandwagon with Blatt/LeBron and you'd be out with Blatt/LeBron. You're not really a Cavs fan, and I doubt you really understand the NBA as well as we do.

No American coaches wouldn't want to live in 2nd/3rd world countries to play for meaningless teams.

No your basketball is not on the same level as ours and likely never will be.

No your players are not better than ours, but in fact worse, in every way shape and form.

No your franchises and coaches are not smarter or superior to ours; in fact, they are worse.

See how when you toss out that bullshit 'Murica insult it can go both ways bro?






'Murica...

p.s.
I'm j/k about the superiority shit... but seriously, the 'Murica stuff from foreigners is a bit insulting.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

There's likely truth in both arguments.

Cassity14 correctly points out why the better American coaches would not want to go do Europe. At the same time, it is equally understandable that Euroleague clubs wouldn't have much interest in hiring U.S. coaches who aren't good enough to get a desirable job in the U.S.

The better coaches don't want to go to Europe, and the others (unproven and otherwise) aren't wanted.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

And while I agree, Jackson likely wouldn't be successful in Europe because his style of coaching is through relating to the players, which frankly, is exactly what Blatt seems incapable of doing. I don't think Jackson's Christ-oriented approach would work in Europe; but that doesn't mean he's somehow incapable of adjusting.

I don't mean to nitpick, but I feel like this is simply incorrect (unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying in bold?).

Although Blatt may be difficult to immediately connect with, his track record is that over the course of a season his players buy-in and connect and the results (championships at every level) speak for themselves. And when the Cavs were interviewing former players/colleagues of Blatt's, it seemed like 95% of the people praised him and loved playing for him. It was a rarity when we heard otherwise (and probably said more about that rare person than it said about Blatt).

It seems like the same has been playing out here in Cleveland. At first there was a disconnect between Blatt and some of the players (particularly Lebron). But the only evidence I've seen lately is how much this has improved (Kyrie has said many very positive comments about Blatt, Lebron has even changed his tune a ton and has complimented Blatt, JR seems to love playing for Blatt, etc.). So what makes you strongly state Blatt is incapable of relating to the players?

 

[gourimoko]

I don't mean to nitpick, but I feel like this is simply incorrect (unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying in bold?).

Although Blatt may be difficult to immediately connect with, his track record is that over the course of a season his players buy-in and connect and the results (championships at every level) speak for themselves. And when the Cavs were interviewing former players/colleagues of Blatt's, it seemed like 95% of the people praised him and loved playing for him. It was a rarity when we heard otherwise (and probably said more about that rare person than it said about Blatt).

It seems like the same has been playing out here in Cleveland. At first there was a disconnect between Blatt and some of the players (particularly Lebron). But the only evidence I've seen lately is how much this has improved (Kyrie has said many very positive comments about Blatt, Lebron has even changed his tune a ton and has complimented Blatt, JR seems to love playing for Blatt, etc.). So what makes you strongly state Blatt is incapable of relating to the players?

I think everyone is being a bit hyperbolic in this thread, myself included. But I was particularly referring to the beginning to the mid-point of the season.

But with that said, I'm not convinced the players have 100% bought in to what Blatt is doing in so much as Blatt has 100% bought in to what LeBron wants.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Well you like to point out hyperbole of others, so I guess it's fair to point out yours as well haha. But I don't find it all that fair to say it's purely that Blatt is caving in to Lebron's demands and that's it. I feel like previous historical evidence, current Blatt/player interactions, and current player comments about Blatt all suggest that Blatt is more than capable of relating to players (and that frankly, this can be a strength of his, even if it often requires a rocky beginning).

*edit* I also never said the players have 100% bought in yet. I said current signs seem to point to improvement of Blatt's ability to relate to and connect with the players. So don't project hyperbole onto me when I never said that

 

[Douglar]

This might be a little off topic, but I thought it sort of fit in the discussion here. Lots of rumors that Thibs is on the hot seat now. This is what Chad Ford has to say:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/stor...m-thibodeau-bulls-front-office-resolve-issues

Larry Bird says: "An NBA coach really can only last about three years before NBA players start to tune them out." I think he would make exceptions for the Popoviches or perhaps the Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys of the world, but it's also partly because of their coaching style. When you have coaches who coach as hard and as aggressively as Thibodeau, there's a certain shelf life, if you will, before players start to tune them out. And as good and as talented coaches they are, that's just one of the realities in the NBA. It works in college because the coach is god, but at the NBA level, the players are god.

And it doesn't help Thibodeau that the Bulls' front office has been pretty dang good. They've drafted well, I think they've signed the right free agents, and I think they've made the right calls, over Thibodeau's objections, such as letting Luol Deng go. I think that they have put this team in a position to win, and if they had a healthy Derrick Rose and if everyone on this roster was healthy, I think we'd be talking about them as a potential favorite to win it all. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a change made after the season, a change that both sides want at the end of the year. I agree with David: I don't think there's as good a coach out there as Tom Thibodeau, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if they tap Fred Hoiberg out of Iowa State to come in and take over. I think he's the hottest college name right now. He played in the NBA, he worked in an NBA front office and he has a demeanor that they might think the players will be more responsive to.​

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Seems like Hoiberg has been the college coach prospect for a while now. Would love to see what he can do in the NBA, but I'd rather he not go to a division rival.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

We've all heard about how difficult it is to change the culture of a team, to develop a defensive mentality, etc.. Blatt came in and did all that in the first half of his first season. And you've got a notoriously difficult player like JR Smith openly talking about how he loves to play for the guy, and how Blatt relates to players as people first.

I can't really fathom an argument for how relating to NBA players is not one of his strengths.

 

[gourimoko]

We've all heard about how difficult it is to change the culture of a team, to develop a defensive mentality, etc.. Blatt came in and did all that in the first half of his first season. And you've got a notoriously difficult player like JR Smith openly talking about how he loves to play for the guy, and how Blatt relates to players as people first.

I can't really fathom an argument for how relating to NBA players is not one of his strengths.

I can.. easily.. We weren't always winning, and again, winning masks a great deal of underlying issues.

People forget the season didn't start on Jan 15th.

 

[mhi]

Lots of good discussion going on here.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the team has bought into Blatt's style 100%. I mean, am pretty sure he's not the one calling for high pick n rolls over and over again. It's more like he's met the guys, LJ and Irving, halfway. Which is typically what you want an NBA coach to do anyway.

That said, you can tell from the interviews, that they def stick to his gameplans (match up exploitations, how to guard guys, etc), which is encouraging as we head into the playoffs.

As far as relating to players, he definitely had trouble with that to start the year (understandbly, being an NBA virgin), but has gotten better. Still think he needs to work with Kevin to get on the same page though.

 

[Pheadrus]

"the worst NBA player would be the best Euro player".

Tom Chambers

 

[melecoaze]

It's fucking impossible to compare coaches. The NBA has more and more Euro offensive concepts each day, maybe because those guys do something right no?

There's no way you can assume Mark Jackson could be a good Euro coach just because he was "successful" in the NBA. Two totally different leagues. How would his offensive system work there?

USA destroys any competition in international basketball by pure talent, not because of scheme, not because their coaches are better.

 

[PriceFan14]

The most interesting thing in this thread is as one of the fellows pointed out that most of the people who put crap on European Basketball didn't even watched high level Euroleague games maybe 10 times. Euroleague is the second best league in the world. NBA is the best. But without even watching, how in the HOLY FUCKING WORLD DO YOU KNOW IT DOESN'T EVEN AT THE SAME LEVEL AS NCAA???
If you don't watch it, you don't know that in a good Euroleague game like Real Madrid - CSKA game itself is more than a chess match. In NBA it's more of a free style there's some loose positions one on ones, bad shots etc. In Europe court is a little smaller than NBA but player's height is very close so the spacing is a really really important issue. Also the time is 8min lower so the value of a possession is more important than a value of a possession in NBA. In Europe guys can't play 40mins so you have to make sure you have a good bench minimum of 10 guy rotation in NBA people are more durable and athletic and teams on average uses 8 guy rotations. This is even a new trend in NBA in a couple of years which Pop made it common. In the Euroleague coaches have the hammer and can flame out if you made a mistake. He can get you out and tell the shit on your face. Like this. By the way that man over there-Obradovic- like Blatt in Europe or Ivkovic or other legendary coaches can do whatever they want and it's not a problem cuz he'll win with a proper roster.

You know why some people consider European Coaching is better general Nba coaching :it’s because in Europe coaches have to play mostly the guys who are one dimensional. Athletic but can't shoot, nice offensively but socks on defense... Elite role players there are average athleticism and can do all type guys(dribble, shoot defend) In order to make it work you need to really construct something in there. You need to be able to play multiple ways, defend multiple ways etc. Most Elite teams in Europe can use almost any strategy that their roster can play. That's the difference. In NBA there are so many knucklehead coaches out there who didn't even try a stretch 4 or going smallball to get more driving lanes. That's why as a Cavaliers fan from Europe i defended Blatt while people wanted him gone. If players do what he says it's fine cuz if it's not working he'll change it. Cuz he had to do it in GAMES MULTIPLE TIMES ALMOST EVERY GAME so that he can do it when necessary. He sticks what's working sure. If a lineup is +8 in a a 60secs he'll try to use it again in next game too even if it's making you sick to see James Jones on the court. İ

 

[melecoaze]

And really, NCAA boring ass 35 second offenses are so much behind the professional leagues and it isn't even close.

Maybe the top teams in the country have better talent than the Euroleague top teams, but the NCAA as a whole has a ton of shit teams and players.