David Blatt is a former NBA coach

[Jscc]

in Europe coaches have to play mostly the guys who are one dimensional. Athletic but can't shoot, nice offensively but socks on defense... Elite role players there are average athleticism and can do all type guys(dribble, shoot defend) In order to make it work you need to really construct something in there. You need to be able to play multiple ways, defend multiple ways etc. Most Elite teams in Europe can use almost any strategy that their roster can play. That's the difference.

That's one of my concerns about Blatt's potential rookie hiccups. He can't approach an NBA game as if the roster is plug-and-play/every player is interchangeable with every other player.

IMO, that's what's going on with the current Mozgov/Thompson fourth quarter situation.

 

[Ohio]

College basketball is ass.

 

[Huber.]

It's like college basketball is for non-proffessional young adults or something.

 

[Helium filament]

That's one of my concerns about Blatt's potential rookie hiccups. He can't approach an NBA game as if the roster is plug-and-play/every player is interchangeable with every other player.

IMO, that's what's going on with the current Mozgov/Thompson fourth quarter situation.

Yeah, I agree with you here. I remember early in the season when Blatt said that he saw Varejao and TT as interchangeable (in the context of TT being great off the bench) and I hoped he didn't see it as that black and white.

 

[cavsfever]

Who's doing that? Nobody.

Why is our offense so one dimensional? Any guesses?

I bet it has to do with a certain player... and I'm pretty sure Blatt doesn't like it.

So Spolestra coached that 'certain player' too and they worked together to build a champion. If Blatt can't work effectively with our top player then he is not an effective coach for us.

 

[cavsfever]

If you don't watch it, you don't know that in a good Euroleague game like Real Madrid - CSKA game itself is more than a chess match. In NBA it's more of a free style there's some loose positions one on ones, bad shots etc. In Europe court is a little smaller than NBA but player's height is very close so the spacing is a really really important issue. Also the time is 8min lower so the value of a possession is more important than a value of a possession in NBA. In Europe guys can't play 40mins so you have to make sure you have a good bench minimum of 10 guy rotation in NBA people are more durable and athletic and teams on average uses 8 guy rotations. This is even a new trend in NBA in a couple of years which Pop made it common. In the Euroleague coaches have the hammer and can flame out if you made a mistake. He can get you out and tell the shit on your face. Like this. By the way that man over there-Obradovic- like Blatt in Europe or Ivkovic or other legendary coaches can do whatever they want and it's not a problem cuz he'll win with a proper roster.

You know why some people consider European Coaching is better general Nba coaching :it’s because in Europe coaches have to play mostly the guys who are one dimensional. Athletic but can't shoot, nice offensively but socks on defense... Elite role players there are average athleticism and can do all type guys(dribble, shoot defend) In order to make it work you need to really construct something in there. You need to be able to play multiple ways, defend multiple ways etc. Most Elite teams in Europe can use almost any strategy that their roster can play. That's the difference. In NBA there are so many knucklehead coaches out there who didn't even try a stretch 4 or going smallball to get more driving lanes. That's why as a Cavaliers fan from Europe i defended Blatt while people wanted him gone. If players do what he says it's fine cuz if it's not working he'll change it. Cuz he had to do it in GAMES MULTIPLE TIMES ALMOST EVERY GAME so that he can do it when necessary. He sticks what's working sure. If a lineup is +8 in a a 60secs he'll try to use it again in next game too even if it's making you sick to see James Jones on the court. İ

The question isn't whether it's hard or easy to coach Euroleague. It's whether Euroleague builds good habits FOR THE NBA. The habits you describe above might not actually be good for the NBA where you can pay a very heavy price for having one dimensional / non-athletic players out there at crucial moments.

 

[Scrote Squad]

It's like college basketball is for non-proffessional young adults or something.

That doesn't make it any less terrible.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I can.. easily.. We weren't always winning....People forget the season didn't start on Jan 15th.

But where's the evidence that the reason we weren't winning was Blatt's (alleged) inability to relate to players, as opposed to other reasons?

There are plenty of other known reasons that we weren't winning. Almost complete roster turnover, the need to implement brand new offensive and defensive systems The known (from Miami) issues with integrating a "Big 3". The recognized lack of a center and shooting guard. LBJ's nagging injury that had him playing substandard, plus the league-wide recognition that we were going to be a team that struggled on defense. And then there were the chemistry issues with Dion.

Once those known issues were fixed, the team took off. So I just don't see a basis for assuming that the early season losing was caused by an inability to relate to NBA players, as opposed to all those other factors.

There certainly was an adjustment period for Blatt relating to the technical aspects of the NBA, including familiarity with the skills of opposing players in the league, the schedule, more minutes per game, etc., Those are growing pains that he's acknowledged. But Blatt's 55 years old, and at least in my experience, "relating to people" is not something that normally improves suddenly at that age. He is who he always was in that regard.

and again, winning masks a great deal of underlying issues.

So you're saying there is still an underlying issue of him being able to relate to players, but that it is being masked by winning? Again, what's the evidence of that? JR Smith's statements (which seem to mirror what Blatt's former players have said about him in general) suggest the exact opposite is true, and Smith's contributions have been a huge, mostly unexpected bonus. And I see a team that is not just winning, but seems to have developed a true sense of camaraderie and enjoyment in the game, which is not something all winning teams exhibit. At least, not to this degree.

I know that you had a preseason theory for why he might not be able to relate to some players, but I don't see any evidence that has actually ever happened.

 

[Douglar]

LBJ's nagging injury that had him playing substandard ....

I know that you had a preseason theory for why he might not be able to relate to some players, but I don't see any evidence that has actually ever happened.

If petulance is an injury, then yes, Lebron has a long injury history, had a flare up this season that made him miss several games, and he's likely going to re-aggravating that injury at some point in the future. I hope is doesn't cause him to miss games again.

I think Blatt didn't fully understand the NBA/Coach relationship back in training camp. Players have guaranteed contracts and an irreplaceable set of talent. He found out that he needs the players to understand and buy in to his system more than the players need to listen. He also found out that the players might have other goal that helping him get a championship. This year's training camp has to go down as almost as much of a failure as last year's training camp. The system wasn't properly trained. The team looked completely rudderless at the start of the season. Lebron & Kryie started improvising to win games. Kevin Love was left on an island. By the time that Lebron took his vacation, it's hard to say the team was anywhere but in a complete shambles.

I think Blatt has made progress on transitioning from attempting to command the team to earning their trust as a cooperative adviser. Fortunately for David, Griffin was able to make some timely trades and that Gilbert made sure that everyone knew that he wasn't going to pay for another coach to sit on the beach. The players decided to accept him after they realized he wasn't going anywhere, and between the winning and the personnel changes, the mood on the team lighted up a lot.

I think things will work out OK going forward as long Blatt doesn't step into a big pile of "condescension" in his post game interviews again. As for seeing what a team coached by Blatt looks like in the NBA, it's probably going to take another training camp before he can get his stuff in place.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If petulance is an injury, then yes, Lebron has a long injury history, had a flare up this season that made him miss several games, and he's likely going to re-aggravating that injury at some point in the future. I hope is doesn't cause him to miss games again.

So you're saying the whole back injury thing was...faked? Is that insider information, or just surmise? Because it looked to me -- and I think to a lot of other people -- like he didn't have the right lift/explosion right from the start of the season.

By the time that Lebron took his vacation, it's hard to say the team was anywhere but in a complete shambles.

I'd agree, but the personnel situation was atrocious. We had a point guard who'd never previously defended, and who had been our primary ballhandler/scorer, who was now having to surrender that role to another player. We had a no-defense power forward who was used to being the centerpiece of his offense, and to being fed consistently by an adept, pass-first point guard. Then we had...whatever Dion was, to the point where freaking Mike Miller was starting. Andy was down, which left TT as our only frontcourt muscle, yet undersized to play center. It was a disaster.

The best point of comparison was the Heat, who'd likewise struggled to integrate their Big 3 even though that was a better defensive group at every position than our Big 3.

I'm not denying there was internal stress, but that could well be because it was apparent to everyone that the pieces/parts they had simply did not fit. Literally almost from the moment those personnel issues were resolved, this team absolutely took off.

I think things will work out OK going forward as long Blatt doesn't step into a big pile of "condescension" in his post game interviews again.

Just curious as to why you think that matters. It pisses off the journalists, who then write shit to stir up the conversation here and among some talking heads, but the Cavs started winning despite that as soon as they made those trades. The journalists ultimately matter a lot less than they think they do.

ETA: Regardless of how the season began, what would you say about Blatt's ability to relate to NBA players now?

 

[Douglar]

Literally almost from the moment those personnel issues were resolved, this team absolutely took off.

The players win the games in the NBA, so you are probably safe saying that it was the biggest factor, but Lebron's return, Griffin's "coach's stayin" speech, and the personnel moves all happened at about the same time, so I imagine it will always be open to speculation about how much each of those items contributed to the Cavs win streak. Same goes for the cause of Lebron's vacation, because he did seem better physically and mentally when he returned. It doesn't have to be 100% one reason or another, but in that case, I think the main cause is less clear. I do notice that Lebron is sticking by the coach now, but still wearing a back brace after games and a giant pad during warm-ups.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The players win the games in the NBA, so you are probably safe saying that it was the biggest factor, but Lebron's return, Griffin's "coach's stayin" speech, and the personnel moves all happened at about the same time, so I imagine it will always be open to speculation about how much each of those items contributed to the Cavs win streak. Same goes for the cause of Lebron's vacation, because he did seem better physically and mentally when he returned. It doesn't have to be 100% one reason or another, but in that case, I think the main cause is less clear right now. I'll just say that Lebron is sticking by the coach now, but still wearing a back brace after games and a giant pad during warm-ups.

Fair enough. I don't think LBJ would ever truly defer to any coach in the league, including Pop, unless he happens to agree with what that coach is doing. But if he thinks that the coach and team are generally on the right track, he won't make waves.

My guess is that LBJ has probably concluded that Blatt is a good enough coach that he's going to support him, unless things really go south for some reason. But that would be the case regardless of who the coach is.

I do know that LBJ, JR, and Blatt went out together for dinner in Detroit in late January. Regardless of whether that particular combination was Blatt's or LBJ's idea, it shows they understand that the leadership roles they each play on the team should complement each other. Getting JR to buy in and feel both accepted and wanted has been a key piece of the recent success.

 

[gourimoko]

But where's the evidence that the reason we weren't winning was Blatt's (alleged) inability to relate to players, as opposed to other reasons?

Not sure what you're asking... but I thought it was pretty apparent Blatt had strained relations with his Big 3 for the first half of the season..

There are plenty of other known reasons that we weren't winning. Almost complete roster turnover, the need to implement brand new offensive and defensive systems The known (from Miami) issues with integrating a "Big 3". The recognized lack of a center and shooting guard. LBJ's nagging injury that had him playing substandard, plus the league-wide recognition that we were going to be a team that struggled on defense. And then there were the chemistry issues with Dion.

Douglar already addressed this, and I agree with him on that point...

It's been said by other mods that LeBron had other motives besides health for playing in "chill mode" and for his "vacation."

Once those known issues were fixed, the team took off. So I just don't see a basis for assuming that the early season losing was caused by an inability to relate to NBA players, as opposed to all those other factors.

As Doug said, there's quite a few factors involved... makes no sense to discount what we know was an issue only due to team success; I said this earlier up-thread.

There certainly was an adjustment period for Blatt relating to the technical aspects of the NBA, including familiarity with the skills of opposing players in the league, the schedule, more minutes per game, etc., Those are growing pains that he's acknowledged. But Blatt's 55 years old, and at least in my experience, "relating to people" is not something that normally improves suddenly at that age. He is who he always was in that regard.

Numerous commentators have said Blatt needed to work on his ability to relate to players; Windhorst in a podcast went into detail about it, specifically citing an incident between the players (including LeBron) and Blatt after our first win in Chicago.

We can talk about Kyrie's numerous outburts, the "max contract" Kevin Love, or Griffin's "not firing Blatt" announcement. But these issues were very real.

That goes back to October/November. Yes, the team started clicking January 15th. That's a long stretch of the season that the team was rumored to be ignoring their coach. We would we now just decide to ignore it?

Has the situation improved? Surely. But as you said, everything that we were doing in preseason has been scrapped. We do not run Blatt's offense anymore, we run LeBron's. We're not a team that relies on ball movement as Blatt intended, and implemented early on in the season, but one that relies on isolation plays and pick-and-rolls.

As you said, the system changed, and things got better, because the players (most of them) bought in.... which is my point. I doubt the bullshit offense we run is Blatt's, as even the Blatt supporters here have said is not likely, but instead, is more likely to be LeBron's "player-coach" influence.

So you're saying there is still an underlying issue of him being able to relate to players, but that it is being masked by winning?

No. I said winning masks lots of issues... we wouldn't know one way or the other what's going on until we are again, not meeting expectations.

But there is a pattern of LeBron saying and doing things to undermine Blatt, which I personally think is bullshit. I also do not think Blatt has full support from Kevin Love, but that's another issue.

Again, what's the evidence of that?

That's not really what I said... again, I'm saying we don't know one way or the other because we're winning.

I know that you had a preseason theory for why he might not be able to relate to some players, but I don't see any evidence that has actually ever happened.

I'm only going off what's readily available in the media and on this forum.

 

[gourimoko]

Fair enough. I don't think LBJ would ever truly defer to any coach in the league, including Pop, unless he happens to agree with what that coach is doing. But if he thinks that the coach and team are generally on the right track, he won't make waves.

LeBron deferred to Spolestra in years 3 and 4.

My guess is that LBJ has probably concluded that Blatt is a good enough coach that he's going to support him, unless things really go south for some reason. But that would be the case regardless of who the coach is.

Yeah... I think if LeBron could press a button and have Blatt fired and replaced by Mark Jackson, he would do it in a heartbeat.

I do know that LBJ, JR, and Blatt went out together for dinner in Detroit in late January. Regardless of whether that particular combination was Blatt's or LBJ's idea, it shows they understand that the leadership roles they each play on the team should complement each other. Getting JR to buy in and feel both accepted and wanted has been a key piece of the recent success.

I dunno if I would read into this the same way you've chosen to do so. This could be LeBron simply asserting himself as the go-between. He is the ultimate authority, oh btw, here is Blatt.

And don't get me wrong, I personally hate how LeBron treats the franchise including the coach. I wish Blatt had ultimate say and authority the way a coach should. But that isn't apparently the case.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Not sure what you're asking... but I thought it was pretty apparent Blatt had strained relations with his Big 3 for the first half of the season..

Guess I didn't think that was as apparent as you did. Or at least, it didn't seem any different (or worse) to me than what happened between Spoelstra and the Big 3 in Miami.

In any case, I'd say that difficulties of figuring out how to get those three to mesh is different from the much broader attribute of being able to relate to players in general. That's where I don't see him having a problem, although again, I'd agree that getting the Big 3 to mesh is not easy.

Numerous commentators have said Blatt needed to work on his ability to relate to players; Windhorst in a podcast went into detail about it, specifically citing an incident between the players (including LeBron) and Blatt after our first win in Chicago. We can talk about Kyrie's numerous outburts, the "max contract" Kevin Love, or Griffin's "not firing Blatt" announcement. But these issues were very real.

I think there's a difference between what actually happens and what an indignant media may insinuate. In any case, the point you made above about winning covering up problems (though not always) also works in reverse. All of the other problems -- personnel/injury/Dion/etc. -- this team had would have created tension with any rookie coach.

Has the situation improved? Surely. But as you said, everything that we were doing in preseason has been scrapped. We do not run Blatt's offense anymore, we run LeBron's. We're not a team that relies on ball movement as Blatt intended, and implemented early on in the season, but one that relies on isolation plays and pick-and-rolls.

We still do both, depending on the situation and who is on the floor. Heck, the weave even makes an occasional appearance. But as I said in response to Douglar -- LBJ isn't going to listen to any coach when LBJ believes the best play is him in isolation, or him initiating the PNR. But that's just LBJ, and I don't think it's fair to draw from how LBJ occasionally behaves a negative inference regarding Blatt's ability to relate to non-LBJ players in general.

But there is a pattern of LeBron saying and doing things to undermine Blatt, which I personally think is bullshit. I also do not think Blatt has full support from Kevin Love, but that's another issue.

I'd agree about LBJ here. His ego simply will not permit anyone to criticize him, even by inference. And that may be related to the Love issue as well. We know that Blatt wants to see more ball movement and fewer 3's, which is something LBJ doesn't want to hear. But of course, LeISO or him doing a PNR with someone else often cuts Love out of the offense. And I think LBJ prefers to see Love spreading the floor by standing out at the 3 point line, not posting up and "congesting" the paint for LBJ himself.

I agree it's bullshit, but it's part of the inevitable price of having LBJ come back.