- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 10,737
- Reaction score
- 26,538
- Points
- 135
Even as an undersized 4, I think he will break out with his next team. Just needs to get out of Minnesota and he'll be fine.
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
Derrick Williams - worth a 1st rounder?
- Thread starter Mott the Hoople
- Start date
Even as an undersized 4, I think he will break out with his next team. Just needs to get out of Minnesota and he'll be fine.
EdMonix11
All-Star
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2012
- Messages
- 5,029
- Reaction score
- 5,777
- Points
- 113
He plays on a team with one of the best ball distributing PG's in the entire NBA. What makes you think he's going to break out by leaving that?
I just don't get the fascination with this guy. I really don't.
adam81king
All-Star
- Joined
- May 20, 2010
- Messages
- 5,807
- Reaction score
- 9,354
- Points
- 113
The only thing I can think of is his run in the NCAA Tourney. Nothing he's done before, or since, that has said, "above average NBA talent."
Another question for the Derrick Williams fans...where would you play Derrick Williams on a roster with Tristan Thompson, Tyler Zeller, Marreese Speights and Anderson Varejao? Or, what does Derrick Williams do that Kevin Jones can't?
narbar32
Logjammin'
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,363
- Reaction score
- 8,475
- Points
- 113
This might be going too far in the other direction now. What he did before the tourney was show enough talent and potential in shooting, attacking the basket, rebounding, and being a leader to enter the discussion as a top 10 prospect. Top 3 draftees fail all the time, but it's not like the Wolves went against the grain in selecting him there, so it was at least a popular opinion at the time around the league that the kid could be an above average NBA talent.
Now, I agree that there hasn't been much so far to substantiate that once-held belief. But he is only in his second year and has spent most of his career in a pretty uneven sort of situation, rather than having the benefits of trial by fire Tristan has had, for the most part. But as far as what he can do that Kevin Jones can't: well, he's taller, longer, and far quicker and more explosive as an athlete, so that allows him to be able to do some different things. Whether he'll ever really learn to truly harness those gifts and become a meaningful player in the league, I certainly can't say, but I think it would definitely be worth it to take a chance on him even if just in a Sessions-esque, get him for a song then trade him for real assets after he improves his stock playing for us, type of situation.
And hell... if we were to trade Speights for him, we'd have then made the trade Lueur for Selby, Ellington, a future first, and last year's second overall pick. Now, I really like Speights and his fit here much better, but Speights might be playing himself out of our price range this off-season. A trade for Williams would prolong the value we got "for Lueur" (actually just for salary absorbtion). And what if he plays great on this team? He can't play the 3, but what this book presupposes is, maybe he can? Or, only slightly less outlandishly, what if he even started looking like a truly viable starter at PF, a perfect fit next to Noel, and makes Tristan an awesomely expendable trade asset or becomes one himself? Or even if he and Tristan look like an undersized but highly effective and complimentary frontline together?
None of that might be likely, but I still like the idea of this team taking chances in weaving straw into gold with these cheap, young acquisitions to flip for even better assets going forward. As to the thread title, though - no, I wouldn't include any sort of first round pick outside of something protected like the Kings pick we received in the JJ trade.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2005
- Messages
- 8,668
- Reaction score
- 7,048
- Points
- 113
Williams best production has been at the 4. According to 82 games, he has split time at both forwards and center. He is net positive at both center and power forward and net negative at the 3. As some posters have postulated, his defense at the three is pedestrian, but his offense is what suffers. At the four he is limiting opponents production well below anyone on our squad. At center he defends about as well as the three, but his offensive production is above average.
Obviously, if you can get the guy for a bag of chips, you do it. But no way do you waste a real asset.
Edit: Just for grins I looked up our performance defending bigs. At Power Forward, willams would be our second best defender behind Spieghts, but at center he would be better than our current crew which is pretty dismal. TZ is top dog holding opponents PER to 18. TT is 29, and Mo is at 23. Williams is a 15..
more data. As it turns out, limiting an opponent PER to 15 at the center is pretty good. Stat, Marc Gasol, and Williams teammate Pecovich are lower, but Howard is a 15, and Tyson Chandler is higher than that. Most guys playing center are around 17 or 18. That includes players like Al Jefferson. Interestingly, Joel Anthony is very good at defending the center. He just has no offense. The really great centers offset this lack of defense by excellent PER of their own. Howards is 20 this year. Drummond is like 26...
Obviously, if you can get the guy for a bag of chips, you do it. But no way do you waste a real asset.
Edit: Just for grins I looked up our performance defending bigs. At Power Forward, willams would be our second best defender behind Spieghts, but at center he would be better than our current crew which is pretty dismal. TZ is top dog holding opponents PER to 18. TT is 29, and Mo is at 23. Williams is a 15..
more data. As it turns out, limiting an opponent PER to 15 at the center is pretty good. Stat, Marc Gasol, and Williams teammate Pecovich are lower, but Howard is a 15, and Tyson Chandler is higher than that. Most guys playing center are around 17 or 18. That includes players like Al Jefferson. Interestingly, Joel Anthony is very good at defending the center. He just has no offense. The really great centers offset this lack of defense by excellent PER of their own. Howards is 20 this year. Drummond is like 26...
Last edited:
Scholar
Sports Archaeologist
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,934
- Reaction score
- 4,883
- Points
- 113
Not just the small number of minutes. But, how they actually determine them. Do they go through the actual game tapes and figure it play by play? Is Tristan penalized when he is forced to try to cover for Zeller on a switch? Plus, we also don't know how many minutes Williams spent at center. I doubt he'll be effect defensively there if he spent all of his time manning the position. This is a case of cherry picking some stats that we don't even know the true validity of.
I sure as hell wouldn't use this as a reason to trade for him. Plus, everyone keeps forgetting how expensive he is. He's paid as the second pick in the draft. He isn't playing like one. I wish people would stop trying to waste our cap space.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2006
- Messages
- 10,283
- Reaction score
- 23,611
- Points
- 135
82games manually assigns the positions for some exceptional players in some of the more popular lineups, but when they have not manaully set something, they sort the players by height and assign them 1 thorugh 5, shortest to tallest. At least that's how it was when I asked them 5 years ago. Maybe they have improved things since then.
Pierre Pan
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2008
- Messages
- 12,555
- Reaction score
- 11,639
- Points
- 123
EdMonix11
All-Star
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2012
- Messages
- 5,029
- Reaction score
- 5,777
- Points
- 113
Kevin Love, maybe?
Damage
fuckface
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2007
- Messages
- 13,461
- Reaction score
- 21,212
- Points
- 135
Love's coming back mid-March
Ohio
Woosah
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 41,908
- Reaction score
- 48,707
- Points
- 148
He's been injured...even so, you can still find minutes for Williams by playing him at the 3 or Love at Center.