Dion Waiters Traded

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

From what I've seen, Waiters has shown ability to get to the rim and a lot better understanding of how to make plays for others than I originally thought he had. He's just out of shape and in a shooting slump, so it's easy for the people who were already wary of the pick to pile on and overreact after a few meaningless games.

Ultimately, this summer league does not matter at all. It means nothing, and people who have tried to use it as a tool to predict the future have come out looking stupid more often than not. I'm still super excited about Waiters as an NBA prospect and nothing that happens is going to change that until he proves over the course of a long time in the actual NBA that he can't play, which I don't forsee happening.

 

[wuck]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Gravedigging threads is deeply frowned upon at RCF. But I hope to gravedig this one someday. :chuckles:

 

[ChocolateButter]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

From what I've seen, Waiters has shown ability to get to the rim and a lot better understanding of how to make plays for others than I originally thought he had. He's just out of shape and in a shooting slump, so it's easy for the people who were already wary of the pick to pile on and overreact after a few meaningless games.

Ultimately, this summer league does not matter at all. It means nothing, and people who have tried to use it as a tool to predict the future have come out looking stupid more often than not. I'm still super excited about Waiters as an NBA prospect and nothing that happens is going to change that until he proves over the course of a long time in the actual NBA that he can't play, which I don't forsee happening.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/another_strong_summer-league_e.html

 

[CPK]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

As long as Waiters comes to camp in shape and ready to work I don't really care what he does in summer league. Would it be nice, or maybe just more fun, for him to be destroying in summer league? Sure. But I honestly don't think it's that big a deal.

 

[NtG]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Relax people.

 

[Garland1]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

It seems like everyone is making excuses for him. I agree that you cannot evaluate him over two summer league games, but he has had two bad games and you cannot dispute it. His defense has been the biggest red flag to me. He is having trouble with basic defensive principles, like seeing your man and the ball. I get it that he was in a zone in college, but these are basic principles you learn when you first start playing.

If he wasn't a rookie, I would understand not putting maximum effort in summer league games but he should want to prove himself in his first action with the cavs. Him not being in shape doesn't make me feel much better either. I mean he knew he was going to be joining an NBA team, how could you just let yourself get 10 pounds out of shape? Everyone says Kyrie was out of shape, however the cavs told him to rest and heal his foot during the offseason and he didn't play a whole season in college.

I am going to wait and see what is going to happen and hope for the best, but im not going to just dismiss what I see of him right now. There are some flashes, lets just hope he has the dedication to become "flash" like.

 

[ajz20]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

From what I've seen, Waiters has shown ability to get to the rim and a lot better understanding of how to make plays for others than I originally thought he had. He's just out of shape and in a shooting slump, so it's easy for the people who were already wary of the pick to pile on and overreact after a few meaningless games.

Ultimately, this summer league does not matter at all. It means nothing, and people who have tried to use it as a tool to predict the future have come out looking stupid more often than not. I'm still super excited about Waiters as an NBA prospect and nothing that happens is going to change that until he proves over the course of a long time in the actual NBA that he can't play, which I don't forsee happening.

While I agree that the jury is still out and many of his problems can be fixed, I think you need to be more objective when you say your opinion "wont change" for the course of a long time.You need to base your opinion off of how he performs this year (he is not 18 or 19 coming out of HS). If he has a solid rookie season he deserves to be praised. However, if you are telling me that if he struggles for "30-40" games into the first half of the season that your opinion of him will not alter one bit, I have to say you are being a homer. You have to judge players on what they actually show you not what you "expect and hope they become because you thought they would be good
Bottom line is, it is way too early to say he is a bust, but it is very reasonable to bring up concerns that scouts (not just fans) have pointed out. WE NEED HIM TO BECOME A VERY GOOD PLAYER, so I really hope You are 100 percent right!

 

[Rob822]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

How long does it take to get that fat and out of shape? but thats not what scares me, first impression, good bball i q, can penetrate, distribute, jury is still out.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

While I agree that the jury is still out and many of his problems can be fixed, I think you need to be more objective when you say your opinion "wont change" You need to base your opinion off of how he performs this year (he is not 18 or 19 coming out of HS). If he has a solid rookie season he deserves to be praised. However, if you are telling me that if he struggles for "30-40" games into the first half of the season that your opinion of him will not alter one bit, I have to say you are being a homer. You have to judge players on what they actually show you not what you "expect and hope they become because you thought they would be good
Bottom line is, it is way too early to say he is a bust, but it is very reasonable to bring up concerns that scouts (not just fans) have pointed out. WE NEED HIM TO BECOME A VERY GOOD PLAYER, so I really hope You are 100 percent right!

30-40 games is pre-mature. What if he has a poor first half but comes on like a bull to end the year? What has become lost in recent years, especially with how media is today, is patience. I strongly stand by the old adage that a player(and a draft in general) cannot be fairly written off or fully judged for about three years.

Sure, a poor rookie campaign could raise concerns, and a failure to make noted improvement in your 2nd year could increase those concerns, but it doesn't change my opinion on Waiters as a prospect.

Go take a look at James Harden and how he played his first two seasons in the NBA. People were writing him off as a role player, and now people are debating who's the 2nd best player on the Thunder, he's playing for the Olympic team, and will probably get a max contract extension.

 

[Rich]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

While I agree that the jury is still out and many of his problems can be fixed, I think you need to be more objective when you say your opinion "wont change" for the course of a long time.You need to base your opinion off of how he performs this year (he is not 18 or 19 coming out of HS). If he has a solid rookie season he deserves to be praised. However, if you are telling me that if he struggles for "30-40" games into the first half of the season that your opinion of him will not alter one bit, I have to say you are being a homer. You have to judge players on what they actually show you not what you "expect and hope they become because you thought they would be good
Bottom line is, it is way too early to say he is a bust, but it is very reasonable to bring up concerns that scouts (not just fans) have pointed out. WE NEED HIM TO BECOME A VERY GOOD PLAYER, so I really hope You are 100 percent right!

There you go. 30-40 games. Aim for that number before you continue on with these panic posts. I mean if we need to hold off until then, you should too.

 

[ajz20]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I feel that a full year in the NBA plus two years of college is enough time to form opinions and judgements about a player. Yes players improve and you can't 100 percent judge a draft for several years. However, count me in as someone that would be very concerned if he indeed does have a poor rookie season. I think he will be a moderatley above average player when it is all said and done. (not just based on summer league, but watching him play in college, reading scouting reports, and talking to a couple former college basketball assistants who know more about judging talent then i do)

I feel like he will be the type of player that will have some games where he looks like an all star and others where he looks like Milt Palacio. I am not a scout so I could easily be wrong here, I am open to that 100 percent. If he becomes as good as say he will that is great, and infact that would be awesome, but I just dont see it yet. If he comes out and has a great rookie campaign, I will be happy to say all of my concerns were way off. I just some of use have trouble with saying, "he is going to be great and nothing I see will change my mind"

30-40 games is pre-mature. What if he has a poor first half but comes on like a bull to end the year? What has become lost in recent years, especially with how media is today, is patience. I strongly stand by the old adage that a player(and a draft in general) cannot be fairly written off or fully judged for about three years.

Sure, a poor rookie campaign could raise concerns, and a failure to make noted improvement in your 2nd year could increase those concerns, but it doesn't change my opinion on Waiters as a prospect.

 

[Jon]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

Strike 2? I mean seriously? So one more bad summer league game and that's it for him. K.

It's summer league ... obviously he gets 10 strikes.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I feel that a full year in the NBA plus two years of college is enough time to form opinions and judgements about a player.

I'd just have to disagree. In this context you're talking about 22-23 yar olds and we generally don't start talking about players hitting their prime until after 25.

People mature mentally and physically, they gain skills and knowledge and experience.

 

[Jon]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I'm confused. Did someone declare that Dion was going to be a bust off of two pre-season games?

If you look at these games objectively you're going to see some red flags. They're not going to go away until Dion makes them go away.

And if you don't think Dion cares, you're wrong:

He said this on Twitter before the 2nd game: "Imma snap tomorrow forsure."

He said this today: "Dedication + Sacrifice = Success."

That doesn't sound to me like someone who doesn't care about how he performs in summer league.

 

[Jon]

Re: Welcome Dion Waiters

I'd just have to disagree. In this context you're talking about 22-23 yar olds and we generally don't start talking about players hitting their prime until after 25.

People mature mentally and physically, they gain skills and knowledge and experience.

You're correct, and I remained optimistic that one day a light bulb would go on in JJ's head up until the day we dumped him on the Kings; but that didn't mean I didn't tear him a new one constantly for his crappy play and non-existent defense.

Only he could turn that around, and he never did. At least not with us.