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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%
  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%
  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%
  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%
  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%

  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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If the Cavs want to trade Waiters this summer, they will have to showcase him this spring, back in the starting lineup after they get rid of Jack.

That would probably entice Dion to give 100% on defense which means mucho playing time from "Mr." Brown.
 
RTrees, that was a horrible straw man that wasnt necessary with such a juicy discussion going on man.

I was pressing refresh on this thread to see some counter engagement from Max on trading Waiters being "reactionary" and I probably wont get it now.

Its all love, but we have got to bring the quality up out here consistently. Seriously.

I typed up this long ass rebuttal to a MRM post a few days ago where I felt a post I made was straw manned and being used to apply to something entirely different than my OP was directed, and then I read my rebuttal over and just decided not to engage because it wasnt furthering the discussion. Let's get back to bringing meat and cut back on the hot air man. I need good discussion here for my sanity because they team is definitely not giving it to me in regards to being competitive or having a direction on teh court.
 
I said all that to say...

Max baby, come back. I need you right now.

Let's talk this out. :chuckles:
 
If Max has hit it on the head, and that Dion's attitude is causing disruption among the team, and his play isn't compensating for those actions, how is trading him reactionary? Especially if there is a trade to be made that gets equal, complementary value back?

I agree. Dion, or anyone on our short list of young talent, should never be shipped out just to make someone "happy", be it Kyrie, MB, or whoever. But there are too many problems on this team, and they need to start being weeded out one by one.

Dump Dion? No. But consider that maybe it's time to to send him somewhere more built for his skillset and try and get the same back in return? Sounds like someone trying to properly fix their mistake as best they can (ie: Chris Grant).

Believe me, I really wish Dion and Kyrie played well together and that there was no chemistry issue tearing a rift in the team. But it sure sounds like there is. So isn't the solution then to remedy that?
 
RTrees, that was a horrible straw man that wasnt necessary with such a juicy discussion going on man.

I was pressing refresh on this thread to see some counter engagement from Max on trading Waiters being "reactionary" and I probably wont get it now.

Its all love, but we have got to bring the quality up out here consistently. Seriously.

I typed up this long ass rebuttal to a MRM post a few days ago where I felt a post I made was straw manned and being used to apply to something entirely different than my OP was directed, and then I read my rebuttal over and just decided not to engage because it wasnt furthering the discussion. Let's get back to bringing meat and cut back on the hot air man. I need good discussion here for my sanity because they team is definitely not giving it to me in regards to being competitive or having a direction on teh court.

It was actually a poor attempt at humor (I didn't even quote him specifically in the OP, just having fun with an idea). He said AAAYYYYYYEEEEEE like 4 times in one post, so I had some fun with him. Wasn't trying to chase anybody out. I think Max was getting the gist of the real arguments being brought forth anyway, and didn't have much of a response. But if he wants to use that one post as a reason to go, I guess he wanted to go.

I feel like the meat has been brought out and it's all on the table. He knows he can respond if he has a response. Please don't stop posting what you would have posted because of that AYYYEEEEEEE post..

I was just teasin'.. but it's hard to express that online for sure.

How about an official apology?

I'm sorry Max! Please come back! Let's have some meat and potatoes! (no pun intended)
 
Dion Waiters has played 100 games in the league, half of those with Mike fucking Brown yanking him, playing him out of position, forcing him to do the things he is worst at and rarely giving him the opportunity to do the things he excels at. Then because Grant looks like an idiot for bringing back Brown, they leak the narrative about what a piece of shit Waiters is to save face with the fans. I'm sure he raises hell in the locker room. And I'm sure it is way overblown. I'm sure if we had a real coach that could play to our player's strengths that the team would be better and there would be no locker room problems. Instead we have Mike Brown who puts our all star PG in a position to look like shit, so how good is Waiters supposed to look? The fact that Waiters hasn't regressed and in some areas has improved over last year puts him ahead of much of our team who are almost all worse than last year. I just wonder what the improvement would look like if we would have hired someone else, from Waiters and everyone else.
 
But consider that maybe it's time to to send him somewhere more built for his skillset

I'm all for the idea of pieces fitting. But how is this team not built for his skillset?

We need all around talent. There's no skill on this team we have too much of, or couldn't use more of.
 
Ugh this is horrible. I like Dion a lot and I do not agree that he will be just an inefficient scorer. He has shown more improvement on D in one year than Kyrie has shown in 2. Right now he seems like the other pick that we even might have hit on a little star power with, and they are going to trade him at his lowest value. That is depressing.

I used to defend the Dion pick because I felt he was going to be really good even if he wouldn't be as good as Drummond. Now cutting losses by trading him reverses that stance for me and makes me feel like Grant needs to go. What a waste, what a lack of commitment to your players. The rumors that MB didn't like Dion before the season even started has only seemed to come true.

We as fans don't know shit about what is actually happening.

Honestly I'd be mad as hell watching CJ, Jack, and Delly play ahead of me. Delly might deserve it from a hustle stand point, but Dion plays better D than either of the other two. He put the team on his back and won that Orlando game in a way Kyrie has been unable to this year. He took the Pacers to the wire without Kyrie. This team is going to suck without him even more, and Kyrie is going to get continually bounced from the playoffs when he tries to go 1 on 5 out there.

If you asked me right now whether I would side with the Organization or Dion right now, I'd say Dion to be honest. I have seen him get pulled when he made a turnover, but I've seen Jack stay in for long stretches while his man went by him and he jacked up early long 2's. I haven't seen Kyrie get pulled when Dion was red hot and Kyrie came in to dribble it off his foot and dribble into 3 defenders while there were shooters wide open on the wing. I'd have a bad opinion of the organization as well. I do have a bad opinion of the organization. They have messed this rebuild up badly, and squandered their young talent by putting them in a position to fail.
 
Ugh this is horrible. I like Dion a lot and I do not agree that he will be just an inefficient scorer. He has shown more improvement on D in one year than Kyrie has shown in 2. Right now he seems like the other pick that we even might have hit on a little star power with, and they are going to trade him at his lowest value. That is depressing.

Dion has improved on defense, for sure...but I'd be interested to hear a substantial argument for him ever being anything more than an inefficient scorer throughout his career. Watching Dion play, everything about his game screams "streaky", to me. I think it's very hard for him to replicate success from one game to the next...or even within a single game.

That in my opinion is what will prevent him from being a really great player.
 
Dion has improved on defense, for sure...but I'd be interested to hear a substantial argument for him ever being anything more than an inefficient scorer throughout his career. Watching Dion play, everything about his game screams "streaky", to me. I think it's very hard for him to replicate success from one game to the next...or even within a single game.

That in my opinion is what will prevent him from being a really great player.

If all he is asked to do is dribble the ball at the top of the key with the rest of the offense standing there and watching him then he will always be an inefficient scorer. Of course, I bet 99% of NBA players would be too.
 
If all he is asked to do is dribble the ball at the top of the key with the rest of the offense standing there and watching him then he will always be an inefficient scorer. Of course, I bet 99% of NBA players would be too.
he's an inefficient scorer because he can neither finish nor hit free throws. and he'll always be an inefficient scorer until he can address those two issues.

edit: that's not to say the offensive system is good; obviously its not. but a lot of his inefficiency falls on himself.
 
Dion has improved on defense, for sure...but I'd be interested to hear a substantial argument for him ever being anything more than an inefficient scorer throughout his career. Watching Dion play, everything about his game screams "streaky", to me. I think it's very hard for him to replicate success from one game to the next...or even within a single game.

That in my opinion is what will prevent him from being a really great player.

I just think his shot looks much improved, his free throw woes are not permanent, and he has shown he can finish better than he is right now. It's his sophomore year, the hardest thing young players struggle with is efficiency. He is taking better shots, and is a good spot up shooter. I mean what if he plays with a pg that gets it to him in his spots? Does anyone on our team get it in their spots? I have no idea. Andy and Deng are the only guys I ever see make someone else look good.

He can't even replicate his minutes right now, let alone his stats.
 
Mannix on 92.3

Waiters still has value. Won't get a star player back but a solid player. Waiters doesn't have the value that a number 4 overall pick should at this point.

Waiters is above average as a player. Waiters has a bad reputation around the league. Can score, decent prospect, but teams won't give up a ton.
 
he's an inefficient scorer because he can neither finish nor hit free throws.

edit: that's not to say the offensive system is good; obviously its not. but a lot of his inefficiency falls on himself.

Well his finishing and free throw shooting can improve with work. But if he were used properly his efficiency would increase right now.
 
Mannix on 92.3

Waiters still has value. Won't get a star player back but a solid player. Waiters doesn't have the value that a number 4 overall pick should at this point.

Waiters is above average as a player. Waiters has a bad reputation around the league. Can score, decent prospect, but teams won't give up a ton.

That's good. We are totally in a position to give away "above average" players that have played less than a season and a half of NBA basketball to a team that "won't give up a ton".
 
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