Dion Waiters Traded

[czvo]

I didn't watch the second half, so if it was different, let me know... but from what I saw in the first half, this doesn't really seem sustainable in the long run. A lot of pull up contested jumpers were falling (he took at least one, maybe two, with a foot on the three point line). Still had tunnel vision a little bit when he drove (though he did have that ridiculous kick out to Delly. I swear, there will be times where both Dion and Kyrie will miss WIDE OPEN guys when they're the next pass, but then they'll both pull passes like that one that make you question why the hell they don't do it more often).

If the second half was a different story, fill me in. I plan on watching it tomorrow.

 

[drysdaleblue]

I really feel bad for both Dion and Kyrie. When Dion was drafted those two referred to each other as good friends. "Brothers" was the actual word, and last year they showed a lot of initial promise as a very dynamic backcourt duo. Unfortunately, I thought injuries really hampered their progress and chemistry last year as they really never had a lot of time to develop with each other. Regardless, I came into this year expecting a big improvement in both of these young men both individually, but more importantly, collectively as a cohesive backcourt. Just one man's opinion, but from my point of view, Mike Brown didn't even try/want that to happen. Is it an ego thing with him or something? To me, he has really sabotaged a promising young and talented roster and created a culture of finger pointing. If only the man could accept some accountability for his role in the team's overall disfunction...That's the first step in turning this mess around. Unfortunately, I think it might be too late unless you fire him.

 

[AC Got Buckets]

I didn't watch the second half, so if it was different, let me know... but from what I saw in the first half, this doesn't really seem sustainable in the long run. A lot of pull up contested jumpers were falling (he took at least one, maybe two, with a foot on the three point line). Still had tunnel vision a little bit when he drove (though he did have that ridiculous kick out to Delly)

If the second half was a different story, fill me in. I plan on watching it tomorrow.

Pretty much this. His shot selection was still pretty dreadful (20 footers off the bounce), but they went in. If you judge the process (rather than the outcome) then it wasn't a great game, but because he was hot it worked. Once he went cold in the 4th, you could see the limitations of the approach. However, he had one move in the 3rd (splitting a double and nice finish) that reminded me how talented he is.

If only our organization developed players better....

 

[Rich]

His shot selection has been a lot better this year, imo. When the 20 footers stop going in, he generally stops taking them.

 

[Thunder12]

Dion does it tough with some fans. He took no worse shooting options than Kyrie in this game. In fact it was Kyrie who in the last minute took a terrible low percentage step back from the baseline with 15+ seconds left on the shot click that gave the Wizards a chance. Game should have been over.
I don't know what the kid has to do, he played a really good game last night.

 

[CleveRocks]

in an individual game, it is probable that one or the other will get more assists. It boils down to match ups and the oppositions game plan. I think opposing defenses pressure Kyrie most nights if for no other reason than he is willing to go hero and take a bad shot, even when a team mate is wide open. Last night he worked the ball to the open guy and his team mates held up their end. if you look at the scoring efficiency last night it was ludicrous. Zeller shot 2 to make eight points for example.. that screams of getting the ball to the guy with the open look.

 

[Cassity14]

Dion does it tough with some fans. He took no worse shooting options than Kyrie in this game. In fact it was Kyrie who in the last minute took a terrible low percentage step back from the baseline with 15+ seconds left on the shot click that gave the Wizards a chance. Game should have been over.
I don't know what the kid has to do, he played a really good game last night.

This is absolutely irrelevant to how Dion played last night. How, in any way, shape, or form does the bolded talk at all about Dion's performance? If you want to talk about Kyrie, do it in the Kyrie thread.

Dion took a lot of poor quality shots last night. He made a lot of them because he was hot. He was an absolute ball stopper in the 4th quarter, especially down the stretch. Every time he touched the ball, he shot it. He was able to get to the rim at will, like a lot of nights, but chose to take a lot of contested 20 footers instead. They went in, so everyone ran to this thread proclaiming Dion the best player in the world.

The stat line was encouraging from Dion. The style of play to attain it really wasn't. He had some quality drive and kick plays, he finished at the rim a little better than normal, but taking the type of jumpers that Jamaal Crawford takes doesn't get me super excited. Dion's mid range game is best when his drives have opened it up to get him wide open looks from 18-20 feet. That wasn't the case last night. It was the opposite, really; Dion took contested jumpers until they stopped going in and then decided to drive. Had the lead been 6 points instead of 12, the Cavs would have given it up while Dion was stopping the ball and cooling off at the same time.

Offenses in this league are at their best when the ball gets to the paint and then either a good shot is converted or a wide open 3 is attempted as a result. One guy dribbling to the top of the key and pulling up with a hand in his face is inefficient and poor quality offensive basketball. We saw a lot of that from Dion last night, which is becoming a trend I'm not a fan of.

 

[Cashius X]

This is absolutely irrelevant to how Dion played last night. How, in any way, shape, or form does the bolded talk at all about Dion's performance? If you want to talk about Kyrie, do it in the Kyrie thread.

Dion took a lot of poor quality shots last night. He made a lot of them because he was hot. He was an absolute ball stopper in the 4th quarter, especially down the stretch. Every time he touched the ball, he shot it. He was able to get to the rim at will, like a lot of nights, but chose to take a lot of contested 20 footers instead. They went in, so everyone ran to this thread proclaiming Dion the best player in the world.

The stat line was encouraging from Dion. The style of play to attain it really wasn't. He had some quality drive and kick plays, he finished at the rim a little better than normal, but taking the type of jumpers that Jamaal Crawford takes doesn't get me super excited. Dion's mid range game is best when his drives have opened it up to get him wide open looks from 18-20 feet. That wasn't the case last night. It was the opposite, really; Dion took contested jumpers until they stopped going in and then decided to drive. Had the lead been 6 points instead of 12, the Cavs would have given it up while Dion was stopping the ball and cooling off at the same time.

Offenses in this league are at their best when the ball gets to the paint and then either a good shot is converted or a wide open 3 is attempted as a result. One guy dribbling to the top of the key and pulling up with a hand in his face is inefficient and poor quality offensive basketball. We saw a lot of that from Dion last night, which is becoming a trend I'm not a fan of.

I was wondering why Dion kept taking contested jumpers in the 2nd half last night. He was like 9/10 in the first half then he finished the game 11/18 I think. Not good. But the reason he was settling for jumpers so much, at least I think why, was because of who he was on the court. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was on the players who clog the paint and can't create for themselves.

 

[shoes22]

The talk of trading Dion has quieted substantially after the Chris Grant firing.
Looks like he's safe for the time being.

 

[Nathan S]

The talk of trading Dion has quieted substantially after the Chris Grant firing.
Looks like he's safe for the time being.

It's funny...if we were fans of another team and said a guy's "safe for the time being," we would probably mean he's safe through the offseason at least. Around here, "safe for the time being" means "safe until after the next game, at which point we will reevaluate everything." :chuckles:

 

[Tornicade]

This is absolutely irrelevant to how Dion played last night. How, in any way, shape, or form does the bolded talk at all about Dion's performance? If you want to talk about Kyrie, do it in the Kyrie thread.

Dion took a lot of poor quality shots last night. He made a lot of them because he was hot. He was an absolute ball stopper in the 4th quarter, especially down the stretch. Every time he touched the ball, he shot it. He was able to get to the rim at will, like a lot of nights, but chose to take a lot of contested 20 footers instead. They went in, so everyone ran to this thread proclaiming Dion the best player in the world.

The stat line was encouraging from Dion. The style of play to attain it really wasn't. He had some quality drive and kick plays, he finished at the rim a little better than normal, but taking the type of jumpers that Jamaal Crawford takes doesn't get me super excited. Dion's mid range game is best when his drives have opened it up to get him wide open looks from 18-20 feet. That wasn't the case last night. It was the opposite, really; Dion took contested jumpers until they stopped going in and then decided to drive. Had the lead been 6 points instead of 12, the Cavs would have given it up while Dion was stopping the ball and cooling off at the same time.

Offenses in this league are at their best when the ball gets to the paint and then either a good shot is converted or a wide open 3 is attempted as a result. One guy dribbling to the top of the key and pulling up with a hand in his face is inefficient and poor quality offensive basketball. We saw a lot of that from Dion last night, which is becoming a trend I'm not a fan of.

I went through NBA.COm and watched all 18 of Dions shots at 61% shooting

I know as a Dion supporter I have limited basketball understanding

but most of his jumpers involved 2 to 3 steps and maybe a few dribbles with his man playing off of him in case he drove.. isnt those the shots a shooting guard is supposed to make. I also ddnt see him passing up on a lot of open shooters.

I watched that 4th quarter. Waiters probably had one really bad shot where he drover under the basket and did a fadeway on the other side. other than that he missed an open 3 dished by Irving. and missed another pass back three one a posessions where himself and 2 others touched the ball .

Dion creates his own shots he isnt a guy that only is supposed to shoot when he is sitting wide open and you gotta make the other team pay for not defending the mid range game when the paint is congested.

 

[jpow6636]

Dion has been one of my favorite players that we have drafted but at this point I think he is one of our only true assets in a trade. I have been a huge fan of his toughness but after watching the first half of this season I can really see how he can drive a wedge in between a team with his attitude and communication on the court.

He reminds me of Kobe with the way he is constantly bitching at teammates and throwing up his arms when they make mistakes instead of leading. Difference between him and Kobe is that Kobe had respect before he started that and Waiters does not with him being the same age or younger than most of the players on the team.

 

[Pioneer10]

Tristan came in and the offense died, plain and simple. It wasn't just Dion everyone had a tough time during the last 6 minutes of the game.

Also did I miss something last night? Once his jumper stopped working Dion went back to attacking the rim. The pass to AV with the shot clock running down was I thought one of the best plays of the game for the Cavs. It could have easily been a contested jumper due to the shot clock running down, but Dion drove and AV made a terrific cut to the basket. That was a critical play last night and the team moved it around using every ounce of the shot clock till they forced the Wizards to foul

 

[shoes22]

He reminds me of Kobe with the way he is constantly bitching at teammates and throwing up his arms when they make mistakes instead of leading. Difference between him and Kobe is that Kobe had respect before he started that and Waiters does not with him being the same age or younger than most of the players on the team.

I'm sure it's been said...but if you take Kyrie's talent and combine it with Dion's attitude and demeanor, you get Kobe Bryant.

 

[Thunder12]

This is absolutely irrelevant to how Dion played last night. How, in any way, shape, or form does the bolded talk at all about Dion's performance? If you want to talk about Kyrie, do it in the Kyrie thread.

Dion took a lot of poor quality shots last night. He made a lot of them because he was hot. He was an absolute ball stopper in the 4th quarter, especially down the stretch. Every time he touched the ball, he shot it. He was able to get to the rim at will, like a lot of nights, but chose to take a lot of contested 20 footers instead. They went in, so everyone ran to this thread proclaiming Dion the best player in the world.

The stat line was encouraging from Dion. The style of play to attain it really wasn't. He had some quality drive and kick plays, he finished at the rim a little better than normal, but taking the type of jumpers that Jamaal Crawford takes doesn't get me super excited. Dion's mid range game is best when his drives have opened it up to get him wide open looks from 18-20 feet. That wasn't the case last night. It was the opposite, really; Dion took contested jumpers until they stopped going in and then decided to drive. Had the lead been 6 points instead of 12, the Cavs would have given it up while Dion was stopping the ball and cooling off at the same time.

Offenses in this league are at their best when the ball gets to the paint and then either a good shot is converted or a wide open 3 is attempted as a result. One guy dribbling to the top of the key and pulling up with a hand in his face is inefficient and poor quality offensive basketball. We saw a lot of that from Dion last night, which is becoming a trend I'm not a fan of.

This wasn't meant to be a Kyrie vs Dion statement, I agree that debate is becoming redundant.
I was simply pointing out that the big producers make some ordinary shot selections. Dion and Kyrie are both young and guilty of this at different times. You did prove my point to some extent though, as Kyrie's shots also went in but his style of play was also less than encouraging.
I think they will both be freakish players in 4 years or so and I think we need to recognise their really good games.