Dion Waiters Traded

[KI4MVP]

It's possible to start two players and still have one of them in the game at all times.

And yes, it's so easy a potato can do it

perhaps possible, but the rotations are strange. You have to break din's minutes into 3 shorter stretches instead of two longer stretches in each half if you want them to also close the each half together.

 

[supermario21]

I also like it when Jack starts because for one reason or another, MB seems to notice that he sucks and gets him out of the game sooner and with less minutes than he was when he was playing off the bench.

 

[Nathan S]

perhaps possible, but the rotations are strange. You have to break din's minutes into 3 shorter stretches instead of two longer stretches in each half if you want them to also close the each half together.

Not necessarily...

Kyrie and Dion start the half

Delly comes in for Dion at the 6 min mark

Dion comes in for Kyrie at the quarter break

Kyrie comes in for Delly at the 6 min mark

Easy...Kyrie and Dion both play 18 minutes in the half, Delly plays 12.

 

[Zen]

Zen: I don't think he is a long term starter in this league at least on a good team (I really hope i'm wrong)

Because...

I mean the guy can defend his position effectively. He plays with effort and hustle. And he's one of the better SGs in the league from an offensive standpoint (???). He's a good all-around player who still has much more for improvement/development as he's only 22 years old.

I don't see why people are so hell bent on making this guy play the super-sub role. He impacts the game in multiple ways. If he isn't scoring well, he's still defending effectively.

He's a starter.

Again, I try to look at Dion in an objective manner. Not one that is from a die hard Cavs fan that hopes Dion reaches the absolute top of his potential. With that said I catch myself getting excited when he shows a glimpse just like the next guy.

To answer your "because?" as succinctly as possible I would say this, and please read the entire post before the flaming begins. Dion Waiters is not very good (right now). He has a 12.3 PER, he is an extremely poor finisher at the basket, he is a below average outside shooter, he is a borderline chucker, his fiery attitude is his worst weapon as it often manifests itself in a way that is not conducive to winning basketball, he is undersized for his position, and he is incredibly streaky.

What I do see is a group of RFC posters that want this young man to succeed so badly they are blind to his shortcomings. What you see from Dion is bursts where he shows insanely high potential surrounded by large periods where he is everything I stated above. What most RFC posters fixate on are the plays like the dunk at the end of the game tonight, rather than the performance as a whole.

Like I said I watch every game 2-3 times, I like to study the game. The current iteration of Dion is a sub par NBA player, there is no other way to put it. Now, can that change? Absolutely. I expect he will work on all facets of his game. But, for all of the reasons listed above, I see him as a long term 6th man on a good team in this league or a starter on a bottom feeder.

 

[wuck]

From The Bullshit Whisperer:

Grizzlies' Dave Joerger: "Cavs had the 2 best players on the floor (Kyrie, Waiters). I definitely think they're gonna turn the corner."

Cavs Waiters says he's partially to blame Chris Grant lost job: "If we'd played the way we have last 2 games he’d probably still be here."

 

[Cashius X]

Again, I try to look at Dion in an objective manner. Not one that is from a die hard Cavs fan that hopes Dion reaches the absolute top of his potential.

To answer your "because?" as succinctly as possible I would say this, and please read the entire post before the flaming begins. Dion Waiters is not very good (right now). He has a 12.3 PER, he is an extremely poor finisher at the basket, he is a below average outside shooter, he is a borderline chucker, his fiery attitude is his worst weapon as it often manifests itself in a way that is not conducive to winning basketball, he is undersized for his position, and he is incredibly streaky.

What I do see is a group of RFC posters that is obsessed with this young man, and what you do see from Dion is bursts where he shows insane high potential surrounded by large periods where he is everything I stated above. What most RFC posters fixate on are the plays like the dunk at the end of the game tonight, rather than the performance as a whole.

Like I said I watch every game 2-3 times, I like to study the game. If this current itteration of Dion is a sub par NBA player, there is no other way to put it. Now, can that change? Absolutely! I expect he will work on all facets of his game.

You lose all objectivity by just spewing out false "facts". He's shooting 37% from 3. Not below average by any means.

As I've stated numerous times, the fact that he's labeled a chucker by many is BS. His 42% FG% isn't the best, but when you look at other young guards around the league many are either at or below that mark. He'll get better in this department with time. Moreover, Kyrie is at 42.6% on the year yet I bet you wouldn't consider him a chucker?

PER if a flawed metric. I put no stock into that stat.

And no one is obsessed with Dion. Please. It's just not hard at all to see the immense potential with him. He can be a really good player in the NBA. I lobby for him to start and get as many minutes as possible because I see the potential he has and know that the closer he gets to reaching his potential, the higher the collective ceiling of this team gets. If this is your definition of "obsession" then I guess I fit the bill.

For whatever reason Dion is just a polarizing player. Either love him or hate for many, except for a few who remain "objective". You claim you're objective and have no qualms with him but I beg to differ. Just my opinion, however.

 

["MVP"]

From The Bullshit Whisperer:

Grizzlies' Dave Joerger: "Cavs had the 2 best players on the floor (Kyrie, Waiters). I definitely think they're gonna turn the corner."

Cavs Waiters says he's partially to blame Chris Grant lost job: "If we'd played the way we have last 2 games he’d probably still be here."

Good interviews of Waiters and Kyrie on Cavs.com. Waiters said he takes half the blame for Grant's firing, and Waiters and Kyrie both talk about learning to play off one another.

 

[Zen]

From The Bullshit Whisperer:

Grizzlies' Dave Joerger: "Cavs had the 2 best players on the floor (Kyrie, Waiters). I definitely think they're gonna turn the corner."

Cavs Waiters says he's partially to blame Chris Grant lost job: "If we'd played the way we have last 2 games he’d probably still be here."

I feel like Dion genuinely feels bad about CG going to the curb. Those kind of things can lead people to change.

 

[elcheato]

Because...

I mean the guy can defend his position effectively. He plays with effort and hustle. And he's one of the better SGs in the league from an offensive standpoint. He's a good all-around player who still has much more for improvement/development as he's only 22 years old.

I don't see why people are so hell bent on making this guy play the super-sub role. He impacts the game in multiple ways. If he isn't scoring well, he's still defending effectively.

He's a starter.

Maybe he can defend his position effectively, but he certainly hasn't done it. He really is one of the worst transition defenders in the league (Zach Lowe preaches this all the time), so even with his apparent "effort and hustle", he literally does not get back on defense after hoisting shots.

One of the better offensive SGs in the league? Based on what? He consistently has poor shooting nights with his poor shot selection and inability to finish through contact.

Does he have a lot of talent and potential? Sure, but to say he's one of the better offensive SGs in the league, and he defends well even when he sucks on offense, is just straight wrong.

 

[chrisrich91]

"I feel like we cost the man his job."

Easy to see where the new found energy level has come from...it took a man losing his job to remind these kids that there's a bigger picture. Hopefully the effort level can be sustained.

 

[RTrees]

You lose all objectivity by just spewing out false "facts". He's shooting 37% from 3. Not below average by any means.

As I've stated numerous times, the fact that he's labeled a chucker by many is BS. His 42% FG% isn't the best, but when you look at other young guards around the league many are either at or below that mark. He'll get better in this department with time. Moreover, Kyrie is at 42.6% on the year yet I bet you wouldn't consider him a chucker?

PER if a flawed metric. I put no stock into that stat.

And no one is obsessed with Dion. Please. It's just not hard at all to see the immense potential with him. He can be a really good player in the NBA. I lobby for him to start and get as many minutes as possible because I see the potential he has and know that the closer he gets to reaching his potential, the higher the collective ceiling of this team gets. If this is your definition of "obsession" then I guess I fit the bill.

For whatever reason Dion is just a polarizing player. Either love him or hate for many, except for a few who remain "objective". You claim you're objective and have no qualms with him but I beg to differ. Just my opinion, however.

This year is pretty much a scratch as to weather he starts or not, I say that in hopes that our next coach will have a better role for him. Ideally I'd like to see him starting too but hoping for MB to budge on this one this year doesn't seem like a good bet.

I'm not a big fan of comparing this team to OKC. But having him come off the bench playing at this level reminds of what OKC was doing with Harden for so long. But when Harden went to Houston it started to look like he should have been starting all along in OKC. Maybe that doesn't apply here. But it could.

I think as the games get played it's only a matter of when Dion starts, not if. If next season arrives and he's not starting by game 1, I'll probably have to visit the rant thread. But this season feels like a wash as far as roles are concerned or ever expecting MB to change. I think guys will just keep working on their games within the roles they already have and get court experience.

But if the roles aren't changing that doesn't mean the minutes can't. If they're not going to start him though, at least give him starter minutes.

 

[Zen]

You lose all objectivity by just spewing out false "facts". He's shooting 37% from 3. Not below average by any means.

As I've stated numerous times, the fact that he's labeled a chucker by many is BS. His 42% FG% isn't the best, but when you look at other young guards around the league many are either at or below that mark. He'll get better in this department with time. Moreover, Kyrie is at 42.6% on the year yet I bet you wouldn't consider him a chucker?

PER if a flawed metric. I put no stock into that stat.

And no one is obsessed with Dion. Please. It's just not hard at all to see the immense potential with him. He can be a really good player in the NBA. I lobby for him to start and get as many minutes as possible because I see the potential he has and know that the closer he gets to reaching his potential, the higher the collective ceiling of this team gets. If this is your definition of "obsession" then I guess I fit the bill.

For whatever reason Dion is just a polarizing player. Either love him or hate for many, except for a few who remain "objective". You claim you're objective and have no qualms with him but I beg to differ. Just my opinion, however.

Just to clear up I said outside shooter, not 3 point. If you look at his breakdowns for each segment of the floor past 13ish feet he is below average in almost everything. Honestly he is one of my favorite players on the team, he is one of those guys that is so emotional it actually hurts him at times. Id rather have a guy that cared over a zombie any day though.

 

[Rainman]

https://vine.co/v/MW1VQDdKd12[video]https://twitter.com/dionwaiters3/status/432713051192586240[/video]

 

[Cashius X]

Maybe he can defend his position effectively, but he certainly hasn't done it. He really is one of the worst transition defenders in the league (Zach Lowe preaches this all the time), so even with his apparent "effort and hustle", he literally does not get back on defense after hoisting shots.

I addressed this point later in my post.

One of the better offensive SGs in the league? Based on what? He consistently has poor shooting nights with his poor shot selection and inability to finish through contact.

Based on the eye test. He can do everything from an offensive standpoint. He's a capable shooter, great driver, willing and able passer. He can do it all. He still has room for improvement obviously, but compared to other SGs in the league there aren't a lot of other guys as multi-faceted as him on offense.

Does he have a lot of talent and potential? Sure, but to say he's one of the better offensive SGs in the league, and he defends well even when he sucks on offense, is just straight wrong.

It's not wrong.He is one of the better SGs in the league from an offensive standpoint when you take into account all he can do on that end. And he's an above average man-to-man defender. He struggles off the ball and in transition but he'll get better as he gets older and matures. I bet he struggles in transition because of his pouting after a missed shot and he's usually not as mentally locked in when defending off the ball. It'll change though.

Reply in bold.

 

[Soar]

Overall Dion showed some things tonight. He played tough and made some things happen. I hope he continues to grow and evolve in Cleveland. I don't want to see him somewhere else.