Dion Waiters Traded

[Nathan S]

I think people (like me) who are concerned about taking too many long 2's are more upset at when they come in the shot clock than anything else. The iso long 2 is always there if you need it at the end of the shot clock, and it pays to have guys who can hit that shot when they're forced to take it. But unless it's WIDE open, there's no reason to shoot the long 2 with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock. Keep the ball moving and give the offense a chance to produce a higher percentage look. Force the defense to actually play good defense for a full 15+ seconds...don't give them a free pass by taking a low percentage shot right away. This is more common sense than stats tbh.

 

[johnny]

Unless it's a dunk or an open corner three #DontShootIt #Duh

 

[elcheato]

It's another area where advanced stats either mean very little or don't mean what you think they do. Even though a guy like Waiters is shooting 37% from 3, it doesn't mean if he is coming off the pick and roll that he should dribble backwards behind the line and shoot 3 over shooting the long 2. That would take him out of his rhythm and he wouldn't hit that shot 37% of the time.

Now does it mean that an offense in general should be more geared toward drive and kicks and getting guys open spot up 3s? Yeah I would say that. I wouldn't say it is a good idea to force either a 3 or a layup every time down the floor though because the high percentage looks won't always be there, and sometimes an open mid range jumper will be a better look than a contested 3 or Tristan getting raped at the rim again.

54% of his makes are unassisted, he's dictating more than half of his offense by himself and picking the spots he wants to be in and shoot from. This isn't him running around a screen off ball and finding an open spot mid range. He's dribbling to it.

This isn't just a Dion problem either. Kyrie takes too many as well, by his own design and free will, and he hits them at a worse rate than Dion. It's something that should clearly be stressed to be cut down on by coaching, but it's apparently not. The Cavs as a whole take the 4th most mid-range shots in the league, and are 16th in the league in actually hitting them. It's bad offense.

Now after saying that, Dion is actually above average from mid-range, so it's not too bad for him personally. He's cut his attempts from there down a little bit since January 22nd, which is a good sign, but he's too athletic, too quick and a decent enough shooter from range to justify taking as many as he does.

 

[elcheato]

Unless it's a dunk or an open corner three #DontShootIt #Duh

No one said never take them, but it should not account for 38% of your attempts, especially when you have a good first step and a good enough three point shot.

 

[gourimoko]

I think people (like me) who are concerned about taking too many long 2's are more upset at when they come in the shot clock than anything else. The iso long 2 is always there if you need it at the end of the shot clock, and it pays to have guys who can hit that shot when they're forced to take it. But unless it's WIDE open, there's no reason to shoot the long 2 with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock. Keep the ball moving and give the offense a chance to produce a higher percentage look. Force the defense to actually play good defense for a full 15+ seconds...don't give them a free pass by taking a low percentage shot right away. This is more common sense than stats tbh.

Precisely this.

 

[D-WAIT3]

DWAIT after he hit 3.

 

[johnny]

Kirk Goldsberry looked at the 3 vs 2 issue with some degree of nuance last month: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/t...d-league-plan-to-do-away-with-midrange-shots/

 

[Tornicade]

"His mid-range game is really something he should get to," Cavs coach Byron Scott said on Monday at Cleveland Clinic Courts. "That's when he's the most dangerous.
"We see so many kids right now either taking the 3 or trying to dunk the ball instead of the old-fashioned, take two or three dribbles, get in the lane and pull up for a jump shot. For him, he has that in his repertoire and it's something he can do. I really want to encourage him to do that. He's getting better with it and more comfortable with it."
The Cavs (6-23) are trying to encourage Waiters to focus on attacking the basket more and not shoot as many 3-pointers.
"I want him to be a little more aggressive getting to the basket," Scott said. "If he can't get to the basket, the 14- or 15-foot pull-up jump shot for him is perfect. He's not settling for so many 3s right now, which is really good. He's looking to be more aggressive right now and be in attack mode."

 

[Cashius X]

I understand the argument for taking 3s instead of long twos. I'm pretty sure Dion understands the argument as well. It makes perfect sense and it's really not something that should even be debated.

However, I'm very much a believer in basketball being a game dependent on rhythm and I feel like Dion has more rhythm and is generally more comfortable taking mid-range jumpers. He can take these shots in rhythm off the dribble and he's pretty successful when he chooses to do so. I really feel like that is his shot and the forte of his game. So long as that's such a good part of his game I don't have a problem with him taking it. He consistently makes mid-range jumpers, contested or not, so let him keep doing so.

I also don't think he's as good of a 3 point shooter as his numbers indicate. Just because he increases his output (as many have suggested he do in eliminating the long two) doesn't mean his efficiency will remain constant. I have nothing to back up this claim, but it's just a hunch of mine.

 

[Tornicade]

on a side note. cavs are 13-10 when dion has 4 or more rebounds. 11-27 when he does not.

his improvement has been in diferent facets of the game.

not coming back for the ball and running into position, rebounding, and recognizing when he needs to move off the the arc. as well as stay there.

Waiters has averaged 2.9 rebounds per game for the season and 3.6 the last 6 games he started.

Dion also had 61 games last season and played his 61st game this season.

he had 48 starts compared to 15 yet he has play 20 more minutes in those 61 games this season.

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	2-Pt Field Goals	3-Pt Field Goals
	% of FGA by Distance	FG% by Distance		Dunks		Corner	Heaves
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	MP	FG%	Dist.	2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16 <3	3P	2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16 <3	3P	%Ast'd	%FGA	Md.	%Ast'd	%3PA	3P%	Att.	Md.
2012-13	21	CLE	NBA	SG	61	1756	.412	12.9	.751	.337	.108	.063	.243	.249	.446	.538	.307	.333	.409	.310	.311	.040	29	.762	.177	.250	0	0
2013-14	22	CLE	NBA	SG	61	1777	.429	13.9	.754	.291	.072	.095	.295	.246	.453	.516	.262	.450	.438	.356	.354	.028	20	.865	.183	.447	1	0
Career			NBA		122	3533	.421	13.4	.752	.314	.090	.079	.269	.248	.450	.528	.289	.405	.425	.333	.333	.034	49	.818	.180	.351	1	0

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Data courtesy Basketball-Reference.com.


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[RedBlackAttack]

RBA, appreciate your memory (or at least your Google ability) and your desire for accountability. The Internet never forgets.

I think we give far too much credence to the opinions of writers for national publications/sites. My guess is that Mr. Kang has watched maybe two Cavs games all season, and took that bit of observation, plugged in the narrative that "Kyrie and Dion don't get along," and called it a day. I'm not blaming him; the Cavs have often been unwatchable this season (especially around the time that piece was written), and it's impossible to be an in-depth expert on each of the 30 teams. But I also don't think his opinion carries much weight.

Maybe we don't forgive, and maybe we don't forget. But maybe we shouldn't give a damn about some outsider's opinion in the first place.

All of that is fair and it is something I consider each time I go out of my way to post some random anti-Cavaliers nonsense from some random website. Normally, I am able to put it on the shelf and not think much about it.

Grantland has admittedly gotten under my skin, though. They consistently go out of their way to call out the organization and its players on a regular basis.

Also, just as an update, Kang favorited my Tweet, which I'll take as tacit admission that he realizes his hyperbolic analysis went about 20 steps too far and he now knows he was wrong. I got your back, Dion.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/jaycaspiankang">@jaycaspiankang</a> Remember when you said Dion Waiters was &quot;garbage&quot; in December? 23/6/4 on 46% since Kyrie went down. Buzzer beater tonight.</p>&mdash; RBA (@RedBlackAttack) <a href="https://twitter.com/RedBlackAttack/statuses/449052064056754176">March 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PeonHaiters]

See the National Media can sometimes get it right.......http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/another-view-dion-waiters-emergence-032714

Watching Dion Waiters can be one of the NBA's greatest thrills. The Cleveland Cavaliers' second-year stud runs the finest of lines between team and ego, combustible under the power of his own singular skill set.

His sculpted, swaggering self cuts through the lane with one of the best first steps in basketball, his shooting is sweet as it gets, and when his game is on and his head is straight Waiters becomes a servant to his teammates, intuitively distributing toward a well-oiled offense. He's even shown potential as a defender -- instinctively, nastily snagging steals for easy breakaways.

Put more simply: Waiters can ball. He might be one of the most talented players of his generation.

That Waiters sometimes miscalculates his prowess and functions primarily to serve his vanity--or a point within a long-standing "who's better" argument with teammate Kyrie Irving--makes his recent emergence all the more worth cherishing.

Waiters' conflict is a typical one, and a slippery slope we lose many a player down. Huge talents have and will always be marginalized in the league when their belief in their ability becomes detached from either a larger team concept, the evolution of craft, or both. Everyone--even LeBron James--needs to change their game and maintain a court connection to others with the intensity of a missile, just to keep status quo with their competitors.

So when Waiters sparks large in the wake of Irving's injured biceps (likely to end his season) it warms the basketball-loving heart. Since January, he's played easily the best basketball of his young career, beginning with his ever-memorable shootout with Tim Hardaway Jr. over All-Star weekend. He's averaged 19.4 on 46 percent from the field through March, upping his month's assists to 4.3 per game as he helps replace Irving's responsibilities at the point.

Waiters has come into his own, increasingly less frightened by the prospect that he lives in Irving's shadow, looking for his mega-talented teammate more than ever through the team's best shining February--the Cavs were 8-6 through that span, the only month they've spent above .500 this season. Perhaps something was learned through the string of ego kerfuffles between the two ballers. Waiters is now making good on his potential after the dust of his and Irving's conflict has settled.

He went through a similar growth period in college, once referring to himself as a "caged lion" as Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim skimped on his minutes. But once Boheim and Waiters came to better terms and he was given his chance, Waiters led his team to an Elite Eight appearance in the NCAA tournament and collected Sixth Man of the Year distinction in the Big East, to go along with an Honorable Mention All-American distinction.

So despite the problems the Cavs and Waiters have had, and despite another rough season marked by injuries and sloppy losses, the future in Cleveland is looking brighter today. Through the dirt of 2013-14's difficulty the Cavaliers come out with a newly minted warrior. Rebuilding has never seemed as easy as it does with two elite offensive players at the core of the team's starting lineup. Dion Waiters' coming-of-age saga is the sterling silver lining of a disappointing season, and cause for optimism with the team regardless of how they re-shift the roster this summer. The lion has been uncaged anew.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

See the National Media can sometimes get it right....http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/another-view-dion-waiters-emergence-032714

Bravo.

 

[AllforOne]

All of that is fair and it is something I consider each time I go out of my way to post some random anti-Cavaliers nonsense from some random website. Normally, I am able to put it on the shelf and not think much about it.

Grantland has admittedly gotten under my skin, though. They consistently go out of their way to call out the organization and its players on a regular basis.

I can understand a national media outlet not giving the Cavs too much love. You're what your record says you are, not what we as fans may want it to be. The part that gets me is how uninformed some of the takes are, especially from outlets like Grantland that like to position themselves as "thinking fan" sites. Makes you wonder -- was it just a bad day, or are they that sloppy on everything they write?

It fascinates me how a lie, or at least a barely-supported perception, can be repeated often enough to become the truth. That's what I think has happened with the "Dion and Kyrie hate each other" storyline. Maybe there was a grain of truth to it a few months ago, but not to the degree it was blown up to be. (And if he really can't stand Dion, well, Kyrie sure did a good job of acting after Dion hit the game-winner last night.)

 

[Rich]

Here's the only thing you need to about Grantland, had Bill Simmons (the guy who regularly shits on every GM who doesn't do things exactly as he said they should) had his way, we'd have Derrick Williams right now. The guy can write however many articles he wants about how badly the Cavs have fucked up the last 2 1/2 years, being drunk and whatnot, but just remember, if he were GM he'd have made the most massive fuck-up imaginable.