Dion Waiters Traded

[czvo]

See the National Media can sometimes get it right.......http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/another-view-dion-waiters-emergence-032714

Wouldn't Fox Sports Ohio be considered local media?

 

[PeonHaiters]

Wouldn't Fox Sports Ohio be considered local media?

No, and quite frankly that's a lazy assumption.

 

[AllforOne]

Here's the only thing you need to about Grantland, had Bill Simmons (the guy who regularly shits on every GM who doesn't do things exactly as he said they should) had his way, we'd have Derrick Williams right now. The guy can write however many articles he wants about how badly the Cavs have fucked up the last 2 1/2 years, being drunk and whatnot, but just remember, if he were GM he'd have made the most massive fuck-up imaginable.

And what did Simmons later say about that pick? "The lesson, as always: Don’t have a strong opinion heading into an NBA draft about someone you didn’t see enough." Same thing as the other Grantland writer we discussed earlier -- Simmons saw a little of Kyrie, bought into the narrative about him being overrated and injury-prone, and declared that Derrick Williams would be the better pick. And of course, his opinions were delivered with his usual smirky, superior, "anybody with half a brain knows this" tone.

Simmons' take on Kyrie/Williams hints at another reason why all amateur-GM types need to be taken half-seriously at best. In amateur-GM land, any moves you suggest can be immediately forgotten, and you don't have to live with the consequences. Simmons can conveniently forget that had he been Cavs' GM, he would have Williams instead of Kyrie, and the Cavs would be headed down a completely different path. He can come back and blast the Cavs for not taking Victor Oladipo, or trading for Thomas Robinson, or drafting Isaiah Canaan (the guy who has played all of 51 minutes this season). (All of which he did here: http://grantland.com/features/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2/). Real GMs don't have that luxury.

But that's not the worst of it. Ultimately, all of this amateur-GM discussion is benign. What really pisses me off is when a media member makes accusations/innuendo that can actually hurt a player's career. I'm thinking particularly here of Ryen Russillo, who was on a podcast with Simmons last June when he said that Nerlens Noel's stock was dropping because Noel had some "epic bad dudes" around him. It was a story for a day or two, long enough for the rumor to be debunked (Noel had actually moved to another city to rehab his knee, and the "epic bad dude" with him was ... his mom). And who knows the motivation for saying it ... maybe Russillo was just trying to get noticed, maybe he was doing a favor for an agent of one of the other high draft picks,could be anything. Point is, it was an irresponsible thing to say, and had the potential to damage Noel's draft stock. Yet Russillo can simply move on to the next target, without consequence.

Remember the scene in "Training Day," when Denzel holds up his morning newspaper and says "it's 90 percent bullshit. But it's entertaining. That's why I read it"? When it comes to the Internet, we might need to up that number a bit; and maybe it's not so entertaining after all.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

And what did Simmons later say about that pick? "The lesson, as always: Don’t have a strong opinion heading into an NBA draft about someone you didn’t see enough." Same thing as the other Grantland writer we discussed earlier -- Simmons saw a little of Kyrie, bought into the narrative about him being overrated and injury-prone, and declared that Derrick Williams would be the better pick. And of course, his opinions were delivered with his usual smirky, superior, "anybody with half a brain knows this" tone.

Simmons' take on Kyrie/Williams hints at another reason why all amateur-GM types need to be taken half-seriously at best. In amateur-GM land, any moves you suggest can be immediately forgotten, and you don't have to live with the consequences. Simmons can conveniently forget that had he been Cavs' GM, he would have Williams instead of Kyrie, and the Cavs would be headed down a completely different path. He can come back and blast the Cavs for not taking Victor Oladipo, or trading for Thomas Robinson, or drafting Isaiah Canaan (the guy who has played all of 51 minutes this season). (All of which he did here: http://grantland.com/features/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2/). Real GMs don't have that luxury.

But that's not the worst of it. Ultimately, all of this amateur-GM discussion is benign. What really pisses me off is when a media member makes accusations/innuendo that can actually hurt a player's career. I'm thinking particularly here of Ryen Russillo, who was on a podcast with Simmons last June when he said that Nerlens Noel's stock was dropping because Noel had some "epic bad dudes" around him. It was a story for a day or two, long enough for the rumor to be debunked (Noel had actually moved to another city to rehab his knee, and the "epic bad dude" with him was ... his mom). And who knows the motivation for saying it ... maybe Russillo was just trying to get noticed, maybe he was doing a favor for an agent of one of the other high draft picks,could be anything. Point is, it was an irresponsible thing to say, and had the potential to damage Noel's draft stock. Yet Russillo can simply move on to the next target, without consequence.

Remember the scene in "Training Day," when Denzel holds up his morning newspaper and says "it's 90 percent bullshit. But it's entertaining. That's why I read it"? When it comes to the Internet, we might need to up that number a bit; and maybe it's not so entertaining after all.

 

[kevin02]

I don't know if this was posted anywhere or not but my dad had yesterday's first take on with Josh Gordon being interviewed. Skip of course brought up Dion and Kyrie hating each other and asked Gordon about it. Skip basically led Gordon into is answer asking whether or not he thinks it would be best if they play on different teams at some point down the road but Gordon said he wouldn't be opposed to it. Gordon was pretty much agreeing with everything Skip said but apparently him and Dion are neighbors so I thought it was at least worth mentioning.

 

[Lee63]

Houston Rockets have they same style where they are mostly taking 3's and close to rim shots . It's not a coincidence. A lot of the faster paced teams are adopting this with evidence that you can score more points and push the pace with lightning speed. I'm sure both Dion and Kyrie want the team to go in this direction. RIght now they just want to get more wins and get better. They are light years away of even coming close to a team like the Spurs, a solid playoff finals contender.

 

[Lee63]

Wouldn't Fox Sports Ohio be considered local media?

Well technically no because the writer is Sam The Bullshit Whisperer who writes on a state level on all the other sports as well as nationally about other NBA players & teams in the league. However he is a local guy. It's no secret he has a soft spot for his beloved Cavs . He often travels with Lloyd of The Beacon Journal to Cav games. They rode together to the Piston game and he tweeted that Lloyd got a speeding ticket in Michigan. I think that's why the joke was at the end of the game "Let's get out of here before the Michigan State Police discover us" was all about.

 

[wuck]

Well technically no because the writer is Sam The Bullshit Whisperer who writes on a state level on all the other sports as well as nationally about other NBA players & teams in the league.

The article was written for Fox Sports Ohio by John Wilmes, a Chicago-based sportswriter. It wasn't written by The Bullshit Whisperer.

The piece was published on a local/regional website by a regional writer (not a local writer). As far as I can tell, it was not published on the national foxsports.com site, just the FSO site. I don't think it really counts as a "national" piece or a "local" piece. Somewhere in between. It's still nice that Dion got some positive coverage from someone outside the local beat writers (and it's not like the local beat writers have been especially generous).

On a national level, the TNT crew and the NBATV crew have been saying some nice things about Dion as well over the last 10 days.

 

[PeonHaiters]

The article was written for Fox Sports Ohio by John Wilmes, a Chicago-based sportswriter. It wasn't written by The Bullshit Whisperer.

The piece was published on a local/regional website by a regional writer (not a local writer). As far as I can tell, it was not published on the national foxsports.com site, just the FSO site. I don't think it really counts as a "national" piece or a "local" piece. Somewhere in between. It's still nice that Dion got some positive coverage from someone outside the local beat writers (and it's not like the local beat writers have been especially generous).

On a national level, the TNT crew and the NBATV crew have been saying some nice things about Dion as well over the last 10 days.

Lol you're about 95% correct Wuck. The other 5 percent you left out is why I said National Media.

But this is cluttering up good discussion about Dion, if anyone has any questions why I said National Media pm me and I'll explain fully where I'm coming from.

Back to Dion, This is a big game for him. This game is a great chance for him to display leadership ability by having an efficient game in a big win to keep our slim playoffs hopes alive. I'm super pumped for this game!!!

 

[Cashius X]

Anybody want to give their input on Dion's play tonight? I missed the game and from looking at the box-score it kinda looked like he struggled.

 

[Pioneer10]

He started out real bad (0-5 or something) and never got into a hot streak to make up for it.

 

[polklop1]

I think he started 0-8 and finished 6-10.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

And what did Simmons later say about that pick? "The lesson, as always: Don’t have a strong opinion heading into an NBA draft about someone you didn’t see enough." Same thing as the other Grantland writer we discussed earlier -- Simmons saw a little of Kyrie, bought into the narrative about him being overrated and injury-prone, and declared that Derrick Williams would be the better pick. And of course, his opinions were delivered with his usual smirky, superior, "anybody with half a brain knows this" tone.

Simmons' take on Kyrie/Williams hints at another reason why all amateur-GM types need to be taken half-seriously at best. In amateur-GM land, any moves you suggest can be immediately forgotten, and you don't have to live with the consequences. Simmons can conveniently forget that had he been Cavs' GM, he would have Williams instead of Kyrie, and the Cavs would be headed down a completely different path. He can come back and blast the Cavs for not taking Victor Oladipo, or trading for Thomas Robinson, or drafting Isaiah Canaan (the guy who has played all of 51 minutes this season). (All of which he did here: http://grantland.com/features/the-nba-midnight-run-part-2/). Real GMs don't have that luxury.

But that's not the worst of it. Ultimately, all of this amateur-GM discussion is benign. What really pisses me off is when a media member makes accusations/innuendo that can actually hurt a player's career. I'm thinking particularly here of Ryen Russillo, who was on a podcast with Simmons last June when he said that Nerlens Noel's stock was dropping because Noel had some "epic bad dudes" around him. It was a story for a day or two, long enough for the rumor to be debunked (Noel had actually moved to another city to rehab his knee, and the "epic bad dude" with him was ... his mom). And who knows the motivation for saying it ... maybe Russillo was just trying to get noticed, maybe he was doing a favor for an agent of one of the other high draft picks,could be anything. Point is, it was an irresponsible thing to say, and had the potential to damage Noel's draft stock. Yet Russillo can simply move on to the next target, without consequence.

Remember the scene in "Training Day," when Denzel holds up his morning newspaper and says "it's 90 percent bullshit. But it's entertaining. That's why I read it"? When it comes to the Internet, we might need to up that number a bit; and maybe it's not so entertaining after all.

We're on the same page, but what makes Simmons, in particular, nauseating when it comes to his near constant criticism of the Cavs' draft choices isn't just his being completely wrong on Williams over Kyrie. That would have just been his worst move as Cavaliers GM, and arguably the single worst draft-day decision of all-time.... But, it's hardly his only "miss" on Cavaliers draft projections over the last four years.

Let's also remember, he wanted to pair Williams with Brandon Knight in that draft. So, his first two picks as Cavs GM would have been two mediocre, at best, players.

But, he didn't stop there.

Who is the guy he crushed the Cavs for not "being in position" to take in 2012? I'll give you a hint... it wasn't Andre Drummond. It wasn't even Harrison Barnes.

It was Thomas Robinson.

Here is an excerpt from his podcast with Chad Ford just after the 2012 draft:

SIMMONS: This is an important point, last year the Cavs took Tristan Thompson 4th, who is like an energy guy. Not somebody who is going to make an All-Star team. By the way, just for the Cleveland fans listening, yes, I thought they should have taken Derrick Williams over Kyrie Irving last year, so take my opinion with a whole salt shaker. I'm not a draft genius, but the consensus was that they should have taken that Lithuanian kid, Valancunas. Everyone thought that was the one guy other than Irving who could be a multi-All Star and Cleveland's rebuilding anyway, so what do they care. Stash the guy and bottom out for another year. Instead they took Thompson. So then this year comes around and Robinson is a better player than Thompson. He's just going to have a better career. They pass him up and take Waiters. So now they've made a mistake a year ago and compounded that with a second mistake. And it's not like franchise-damaging, but still if you are going to look at those two picks and say "what would you rather have," you'd rather have the Lithuanian kid and Thomas Robinson with Kyrie. You just would. That's a nice foundation. It's not an awful foundation what they have, but I...

FORD: The reason (Valanciunas) dropped in last year's draft is because there were some interesting contract issues where it was very unclear when he was going to be able to come over. Everybody knew for sure he wouldn't be able to come over that year and it's hard to take a player at 2 or 3 that isn't going to come over in a year.

SIMMONS: Yeah, but Cleveland should have taken him though.

FORD: Cleveland was as high on him as any team in the league and, as it got into the last final minutes of the draft, they began to panic a little bit because, his agent didn't really want him to go there. He wanted him to go to Toronto and so he was really giving them the run-around about when the kid was going to come over and how many years it was going to be or whatever. They just decided we can't risk this and they went with Tristan Thompson.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8113307


So, there is is folks. Hey, do you think Portland would trade TRob for Waiters right now? lol

Let's just forget the fact that Simmons completely ignores his own advice to the Cavs' management in 2011, which had nothing to do with Valanciunas. His advice was to go Williams/Knight.

But, putting that aside for the moment, he sounds completely convinced that Thomas Robinson was the best guy on the board at #4 in 2012. Then in 2013, he wanted Oladipo -- who I think is vastly overrated.

For those keeping track at home, that means Simmons -- the guy who berates Cavs' management for draft-day misses -- would have this core right now had he been running the Cavs from 2011-14:


PG - Brandon Knight
SG - Victor Oladipo
SF - Derrick Williams
PF - Thomas Robinson
C - ???? Andy, I guess?

How can you achieve his level of smugness while simultaneously getting it this wrong?

 

[Lee63]

The article was written for Fox Sports Ohio by John Wilmes, a Chicago-based sportswriter. It wasn't written by The Bullshit Whisperer.

The piece was published on a local/regional website by a regional writer (not a local writer). As far as I can tell, it was not published on the national foxsports.com site, just the FSO site. I don't think it really counts as a "national" piece or a "local" piece. Somewhere in between. It's still nice that Dion got some positive coverage from someone outside the local beat writers (and it's not like the local beat writers have been especially generous).

On a national level, the TNT crew and the NBATV crew have been saying some nice things about Dion as well over the last 10 days.

I stand corrected it is not Sam The Bullshit Whisperer. I have seen this article shared on other NBA websites like Hoopshype, insidehoopes, ect. It also has been shared on facebook, twitter as well . So because it was shared on the internet which is not exclusive to the State of Ohio only; it can be understood as reaching a national level is my point in which I carefully used the word "technically" . Btw I wasn't the original person stating this.

But getting to the heart of this yes it is nice to hear TNT and NBATV mention him. Local media has been harsh to him especially IMO Cleveland Plain Dealer. Local media tends to play follow the leader on what ESPN says.

 

[Lee63]

Anybody want to give their input on Dion's play tonight? I missed the game and from looking at the box-score it kinda looked like he struggled.

They were on him like flies on shit tonight. They didn't give him much space. It had him rattled. Now he sees what Kyrie goes through all the time. Tonight's game Waiters 20pts, 5 asst 1 reb fg%33% 3P%42% FT%100% He shot better from the 3 tonight. Once he could run down court fast and make a quick pull up jumper; he did much better. He tried like hell to drive to the hole but couldn't finish. Like I said they had him covered. BUt before everyone goes crazy, Jack had a horrifc night at shooting fg%33% and 3P% 20% Nets played a really good game in the paint as well as a perfect perimeter shooting. they were fg%55% and 3P%48% That's just insane!