Dion Waiters Traded

[Los216]

I think the CAVS would be very stupid to get rid of either KI or Dion. We dumped Ron Harper for no reason other than some stupid rumors and in my mind the franchise never really recovered. Dion is the closest thing to Ron Harper that we have had since he left. Kyrie is a generational type talent that maybe now will listen to some coaching since he can see how good Dion is. In hindsight it is really hard to see why Grant was dumped. I am not sure that the long term outlook for Drummond is all that great. He has no offensive game to speak of and cant stay on the floor in the 4th quarter because he is an historically bad foul shooter. Barnes just stinks. MKG stinks. Beal is good-not clear that he is better than Dion. T think the pick was fine. Morever it is not clear in this rookie class that Bennett was a bad pick. I wonder if Grant would have done the Hawes deal which was an exellent deal.

eh maybe..

But he did do the Jarrett Jack deal and he signed Earl Clark and Bynum. It's cool though he hired Mike Brown who decided to bench Dion anyway right?

 

[Cashius X]

eh maybe..

But he did do the Jarrett Jack deal and he signed Earl Clark and Bynum. It's cool though he hired Mike Brown who decided to bench Dion anyway right?

All Gilbert deals from what I understand. I hated the hire also.

 

[brownsbuck6]

Max-

First, thanks for quoting my inaccurate post from yesterday and perpetuating my stupidity to live on for another page.

In my favor however, I did say MOST of us thought it was a no lose situation. You were dead nuts right clearly.. that is impressive.

 

[Nom]

Dion shooting 44/27/71 since Kyrie went down. He's averaging 5 assists, 3 rebounds 2.6 TOVs in 40 minutes per game. He's struggling at the rim again, shooting 47% but it is being masked because he is going off in his midrange game, shooting 53%.

So what is happening while Kyrie has been out isn't super encouraging - and even the success he's had doesn't seem sustainable.

Interestingly enough Dion caught fire starting around Jan 22nd. In the 19 games from Jan 22nd until Kyrie went down on March 16th, Dion was shooting 46/39/62 with 2.7 rebs and assists on only 25 minutes per night. He was shooting 55% in the restricted area and 42% from mid-range.

I was much more excited about his play before Kyrie than after.

 

[JSS2306]

I'm pretty sure one of the insiders said the Hawes deal was actually Grant's idea to begin with.

As far as Dion is concerned it's obvious that he is a catalyst who keeps the ball moving and his shot selection has improved leaps and bounds. He's not the finisher Kyrie is (or was) but I think he has the ability to improve in that area as well. I'm anxious to see how Kyrie responds to the recent successes of the team. I believe keeping the ball moving will benefit him just like it's benefiting Dion but it remains to be seen whether or not he's wholly capable of integrating this into his game. We've also seen the teams defense improve with him out. There's no ifs ands or buts about it, he needs to step up and match the intensity that Delly provides night in and night out.

I'd rather do without the nifty scoring and ball handling if it means he becomes a hard nosed leader with defense and who understands that when the entire team is doing well it will only lead to opportunities for himself. As it stands, I think the team has a carved out a nice identity for themselves with him out and it remains to be seen if Kyrie will help or hurt what we have accomplished as a unit.

 

[JSS2306]

Dion shooting 44/27/71 since Kyrie went down. He's averaging 5 assists, 3 rebounds 2.6 TOVs in 40 minutes per game. He's struggling at the rim again, shooting 47% but it is being masked because he is going off in his midrange game, shooting 53%.

So what is happening while Kyrie has been out isn't super encouraging - and even the success he's had doesn't seem sustainable.

Interestingly enough Dion caught fire starting around Jan 22nd. In the 19 games from Jan 22nd until Kyrie went down on March 16th, Dion was shooting 46/39/62 with 2.7 rebs and assists on only 25 minutes per night. He was shooting 55% in the restricted area and 42% from mid-range.

I was much more excited about his play before Kyrie than after.

I can't be the only one who shook my head reading this.

Forget stats, Dion is passing the ball up and getting to his spots knowing he might not get the ball back. THAT is what you are suppose to do to get the team involved. We're seeing improvements across the board for almost every single teammate. THAT is the goal. You don't want to rely on ball stopping offense from your "scorers", you want a cohesive game from everyone so that the opponent never has a chance to settle on a defensive game plan. This whittles away the energy of a team and forces them to be cognisant of their assignments the entire game knowing if they cheat off their man they might pay for it. It also gives your best players the opportunity to play up to their talent.

I couldn't disagree more and I feel Dion is really showing his maturation in these last few games or so. It's awesome to watch quite frankly and it's only the first step for a young guy like Dion. He can build from this and create a ceiling much higher than what anyone previously predicted.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I'm not at all surprised Dion's shooting from 3 and from inside have fallen without Kyrie. He is the focus of the defense now, so he gets fewer open spot up looks from 3 and he gets all of the attention at the rim. If Kyrie buys in to moving the ball then having him back would be a great help to Dion's game, just as playing with Dion will help Kyrie.

 

[Nom]

I can't be the only one who shook my head reading this.

Forget stats, Dion is passing the ball up and getting to his spots knowing he might not get the ball back. THAT is what you are suppose to do to get the team involved. We're seeing improvements across the board for almost every single teammate. THAT is the goal. You don't want to rely on ball stopping offense from your "scorers", you want a cohesive game from everyone so that the opponent never has a chance to settle on a defensive game plan. This whittles away the energy of a team and forces them to be cognisant of their assignments the entire game knowing if they cheat off their man they might pay for it. It also gives your best players the opportunity to play up to their talent.

I couldn't disagree more and I feel Dion is really showing his maturation in these last few games or so. It's awesome to watch quite frankly and it's only the first step for a young guy like Dion. He can build from this and create a ceiling much higher than what anyone previously predicted.

I think Dion's been doing all those things you say recently - I just think he was doing them even better when Kyrie was healthy.

 

[JSS2306]

I think Dion's been doing all those things you say recently - I just think he was doing them even better when Kyrie was healthy.

I disagree. I think Dion coming off the bench has been a complete hindrance on his self confidence,feel for the game, and attitude. His shot selection was bunk coming off the pine and so was his prowess. We've seen a complete resurgence of who he can be recently and I don't even think it's debatable to be honest.

I'm not sure pointing to stats will illustrate what we've seen from a maturation process standpoint. If you want to point to stats, maybe Kyrie is more of a competent example when you include the rest of the team and more specifically in regards to Jack and Deng.

 

[Ohio]

Any better gifs of Dion's buzzer beater than this one?

Looking for a better angle that's not so zoned out

OG rep for whoever finds one

 

[MoFlo]

And this one just for Delly & Deng, and Delly interrupting Deng's dry humping the air :chuckles:

 

[Tornicade]

Grant wasnt fired for his roster building. he was fired for his roster managing.

Meddling with Scott, Meddling with Brown, Meddling with the players. it all backfired on him when it came to running a tight ship. with the people who came to the organization once they got here.

Grant was a salesman not a manager.

his cloak and dagger shenanigans and quietly using the media to serve his agenda (scotts ousting) didnt sit well people (or maybe it was Gilbert since gilbert did the same thing to Grant before his ouster) but either way and there was a lack of trust. his player meetings and trips with the team only reinforced this to the ownership and organization.

regardless Grant put Dion on the trade block which would of been the horrible move Cleveland hasnt seen from a gm since the day they traded Ron Harper.

Grant had several oppurtunities to fix that locker room and the coaching structure of the team. he failed to do both.

Thats why Dion is still here and Grant is not. even Dion at 22 understand the human element to success and that there is more to it than x's and o's

There's a whole lot of wrong in that post right there. Ownership's meddling is what backfired on this season...Grant was the fall guy.

Thats odd certainly a big attitude change from day one.

so did gilbert underscore Grants or Browns auhtority behind the scenes?

Did gilbert try to override Browns decisions by telling the asistant coaches to do other things?

Grant had multiple meetins with the players, he went on the road with them at levels we hadnt seen before and ownership was being more assertive. perhaps a lack of confidence?

Scapegoat or not Grant failed to keep everything in order. All GM's have to deal with the owners . its part of the job.

If grant was undermines he allowed himself to be undermined. What he couldnt do is reach the players, the coaching staff, or ownership and from your own quotes wasnt instilling alot of confidence from his own front offense. that failure on all fronts if he didnt do anything that seemed incompetent or unprofessional. the Organization needed answers for developing their core and implementing their "culture. it wasnt done. it was time for Grant to go. Even though im a big fan of his roster building.

as far as alot of wrong right there ... which part? Scott was a non factor to the press an incumbent waiting for his team to develop.. all of sudden the team reporters started reporting things. forum site in the know guys followed suit. it was clear the organization started the scott rumours a few months before he was fired. we saw the same thing with grant.. beat reporters and pundits quoting inside sources " gilbert doesn't trust Grant to not ditch the build to save his job" . you dont think there is any organizational manipulation going on there? these things came out of nowhere and took their life then became fact. you think that was coincidence.

 

[Lee63]

Latest power rankings ya all!! http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE REMARKS ABOUT DION... It will be very difficult for Brown to take him out from starting or cut his minutes based on this. He will look like a complete idiot. Cavs just climbed up a couple spots in the rankings!!

Cleveland (30-45)
Pace: 95.4 (19), OffRtg: 100.5 (24), DefRtg: 104.9 (20), NetRtg: -4.4 (24)
The Cavs have won four of their last five (without Kyrie Irving) to put themselves in the picture for that last playoff spot in the East. Matthew Dellavedova isn't Irving, but he's been running the offense pretty well. The Cavs are a plus-10.5 per 100 possessions in 625 minutes with Dellavedova and Dion Waiters on the floor together, a mark that's much better than any of their other guard combinations.
This week: @ ORL, @ ATL, vs. CHA

 

[Jack Brickman]

Latest power rankings ya all!! http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE REMARKS ABOUT DION... It will be very difficult for Brown to take him out from starting or cut his minutes based on this. He will look like a complete idiot. Cavs just climbed up a couple spots in the rankings!!

Cleveland (30-45)
Pace: 95.4 (19), OffRtg: 100.5 (24), DefRtg: 104.9 (20), NetRtg: -4.4 (24)
The Cavs have won four of their last five (without Kyrie Irving) to put themselves in the picture for that last playoff spot in the East. Matthew Dellavedova isn't Irving, but he's been running the offense pretty well. The Cavs are a plus-10.5 per 100 possessions in 625 minutes with Dellavedova and Dion Waiters on the floor together, a mark that's much better than any of their other guard combinations.
This week: @ ORL, @ ATL, vs. CHA

You know this means that when Kyrie comes back Delly will never see the court, right? :chuckles:

 

[Pioneer10]

This has been the case since early in the year and has been discussed numerous times in this forum. Too bad it took an injury to really see that combo to get a lot of minutes