Dion Waiters Traded

[Jack Brickman]

Some high praise by Windy:

But it’s dangerous to give up on one of them because I do feel that they’re really talented. For a while, people hammered the Cavs on Harrison Barnes versus Dion Waiters… or even Andre Drummond. I think, ideally, Andre Drummond is your third best player on a good team. I think Dion could potentially be your second best player on a good team. So, I think the pick was good. I just think the personality match was bad.

 

[B3team]

Some high praise by Windy:

There is no way Detroit would ever trade Drummond for Dion. The Cavs would definitely trade Dion for Drummond. I'll let you do the math.

 

[The Oi]

There is no way Detroit would ever trade Drummond for Dion. The Cavs would definitely trade Dion for Drummond. I'll let you do the math.

Don't know about that. While there may be a larger volume of talented wings in the NBA than there are talented bigs, there's not a whole hell of a lot of 20ppg scorers at any position that can play defense and Dion appears to be on his way to being one of those. Drummond is still very raw and has yet to show major signs of being a strong offensive player.

I'm not saying they're on the exact same trajectory, but I'd put that pick at about 50/50 based on the way Dion's playing and the possibility that he's harnessing that chip on the shoulder attitude for the better rather than the worse.

 

[Cashius X]

Dion acts like such a bitch man...

Man up and stop crying. How hard is it for someone on the Cavs, one of the players or coaches, to get in his face and get him to change? Just hold him accountable, damn.

Edit: Isn't he from Philly? He should be able to keep grinding and shrug off bad/no calls. Shit, he said he played streetball all the time growing up and no one calls fouls in the park. Really needs to grow up. It's getting old.

 

[Tornicade]

people can be obtuse about stats.you gotta have them in order and show what your explaining or youll get ripped to shreds on anomolies and such. everyone knows that the effectiveness of grading lineups rely on minutes played so if you dont present your data set properly or explain the anomolies . your gonna get crucified.

 

[chuck0609]

Some high praise by Windy:

Absolute unsupported speculation from me; maybe LBJ wants to play with Dion over Kyrie?

 

[KyrieIrvingDuke]

Don't know about that. While there may be a larger volume of talented wings in the NBA than there are talented bigs, there's not a whole hell of a lot of 20ppg scorers at any position that can play defense and Dion appears to be on his way to being one of those. Drummond is still very raw and has yet to show major signs of being a strong offensive player.

I'm not saying they're on the exact same trajectory, but I'd put that pick at about 50/50 based on the way Dion's playing and the possibility that he's harnessing that chip on the shoulder attitude for the better rather than the worse.

You're kidding, right?

 

[The Oi]

You're kidding, right?

I made several statements in that post, finishing the post with a sentence including two qualifiers in it.

How bout you help us out and specify which one you don't like and then we'll move on from there.

Something tells me you'll need to be dealt with and I'll be happy to handle.

 

[Ohio]

Joint interview with Kyrie

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video/2014/04/07/140407practicewaitersirvingfinal-3228317/

 

[Surge]

I made several statements in that post, finishing the post with a sentence including two qualifiers in it.

How bout you help us out and specify which one you don't like and then we'll move on from there.

Something tells me you'll need to be dealt with and I'll be happy to handle.

This belt doesn't just hold my pants up!

 

[gourimoko]

This belt doesn't just hold my pants up!

:chuckles:

 

[The Oi]

 

[KyrieIrvingDuke]

I made several statements in that post, finishing the post with a sentence including two qualifiers in it.

How bout you help us out and specify which one you don't like and then we'll move on from there.

Something tells me you'll need to be dealt with and I'll be happy to handle.

Struck a nerve with three words, huh.

To start, calling Dion Waiters a budding 20ppg scorer is silly. In order to do so, he needs to take close to 20 shots a game-- even in his best month (March), he shot about 18 times a game and scored about 19. He's an inefficient scorer, and always has been; you'd be surprised how many guys could equal his production if they took the same number of bad shots. Overlooking his inefficient ways of scoring reeks of homerism.

I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by Dion "can play defense". He's currently worse than Kyrie, an awful defender, in defensive win shares, defensive rating, and steal%. To top it all off, Dion is a pretty bad rebounder. Now, he's better than Kyrie, and is no slouch. He can "play defense", just like many other guards in the NBA can. He's not special on that end of the floor by any stretch of the imagination, though, and is still prone to mental mistakes due to immaturity. Not sure where you're going with that.

Now, let's talk about Drummond. It's common knowledge that centers are the most coveted types of players in the NBA, as truly good ones come around very infrequently. Drummond, from a defense/rebounding perspective, is everything you want in a center-- dominant rebounder, and can anchor an elite defense with his size and shot-blocking. Roy fucking Hibbert just practically got a max contract while having no offensive game to speak of; these guys are so so so much more valuable to a team than guys like Dion. I'm really shocked you're even having me tell you this. And while Drummond is certainly raw offensively, he's still averaging 13ppg in about 32 mins. That's still great production, and he'll improve over the years.

Your projection for Dion is based on a small sample size that isn't majorly impressive when you look past the sheer numbers (not close to being equivalent to Drummond's production), and an abstract concept that he's "harnessing the chip on his shoulder for the better", which is quite the leap of faith given A) he's been an immature player his whole career and B) we've seen flashes of growing up from multiple players on this team, only to see them fall back to previous levels. Go ahead and hop on the Dion bandwagon after a month of him being different. I'll wait a bit longer, thank you very much.

I'm not dismissing the possibility he could ultimately be better than Drummond. I'm calling it idiotic to put the odds at 50/50.

 

[Tornicade]

Struck a nerve with three words, huh.

To start, calling Dion Waiters a budding 20ppg scorer is silly. In order to do so, he needs to take close to 20 shots a game-- even in his best month (March), he shot about 18 times a game and scored about 19. He's an inefficient scorer, and always has been; you'd be surprised how many guys could equal his production if they took the same number of bad shots. Overlooking his inefficient ways of scoring reeks of homerism.

I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by Dion "can play defense". He's currently worse than Kyrie, an awful defender, in defensive win shares, defensive rating, and steal%. To top it all off, Dion is a pretty bad rebounder. Now, he's better than Kyrie, and is no slouch. He can "play defense", just like many other guards in the NBA can. He's not special on that end of the floor by any stretch of the imagination, though, and is still prone to mental mistakes due to immaturity. Not sure where you're going with that.

Now, let's talk about Drummond. It's common knowledge that centers are the most coveted types of players in the NBA, as truly good ones come around very infrequently. Drummond, from a defense/rebounding perspective, is everything you want in a center-- dominant rebounder, and can anchor an elite defense with his size and shot-blocking. Roy fucking Hibbert just practically got a max contract while having no offensive game to speak of; these guys are so so so much more valuable to a team than guys like Dion. I'm really shocked you're even having me tell you this. And while Drummond is certainly raw offensively, he's still averaging 13ppg in about 32 mins. That's still great production, and he'll improve over the years.

Your projection for Dion is based on a small sample size that isn't majorly impressive when you look past the sheer numbers (not close to being equivalent to Drummond's production), and an abstract concept that he's "harnessing the chip on his shoulder for the better", which is quite the leap of faith given A) he's been an immature player his whole career and B) we've seen flashes of growing up from multiple players on this team, only to see them fall back to previous levels. Go ahead and hop on the Dion bandwagon after a month of him being different. I'll wait a bit longer, thank you very much.

I'm not dismissing the possibility he could ultimately be better than Drummond. I'm calling it idiotic to put the odds at 50/50.

homerism. You should have more confidence in what your typing.

Dion creates shots and opportunities for his teammates.

perhaps Andre should learn how to play team defense and guard outside the restricted before you refer to him as an elite anchor to a defense.

He certainly has yet to do that. unless defense to you is allowing the opponent to score as mmany times possible while snagging a few highlight reel blocks

 

[JackBurton3380]

Struck a nerve with three words, huh.

To start, calling Dion Waiters a budding 20ppg scorer is silly. In order to do so, he needs to take close to 20 shots a game-- even in his best month (March), he shot about 18 times a game and scored about 19. He's an inefficient scorer, and always has been; you'd be surprised how many guys could equal his production if they took the same number of bad shots. Overlooking his inefficient ways of scoring reeks of homerism.

I'm also not exactly sure what you mean by Dion "can play defense". He's currently worse than Kyrie, an awful defender, in defensive win shares, defensive rating, and steal%. To top it all off, Dion is a pretty bad rebounder. Now, he's better than Kyrie, and is no slouch. He can "play defense", just like many other guards in the NBA can. He's not special on that end of the floor by any stretch of the imagination, though, and is still prone to mental mistakes due to immaturity. Not sure where you're going with that.

Now, let's talk about Drummond. It's common knowledge that centers are the most coveted types of players in the NBA, as truly good ones come around very infrequently. Drummond, from a defense/rebounding perspective, is everything you want in a center-- dominant rebounder, and can anchor an elite defense with his size and shot-blocking. Roy fucking Hibbert just practically got a max contract while having no offensive game to speak of; these guys are so so so much more valuable to a team than guys like Dion. I'm really shocked you're even having me tell you this. And while Drummond is certainly raw offensively, he's still averaging 13ppg in about 32 mins. That's still great production, and he'll improve over the years.

Your projection for Dion is based on a small sample size that isn't majorly impressive when you look past the sheer numbers (not close to being equivalent to Drummond's production), and an abstract concept that he's "harnessing the chip on his shoulder for the better", which is quite the leap of faith given A) he's been an immature player his whole career and B) we've seen flashes of growing up from multiple players on this team, only to see them fall back to previous levels. Go ahead and hop on the Dion bandwagon after a month of him being different. I'll wait a bit longer, thank you very much.

I'm not dismissing the possibility he could ultimately be better than Drummond. I'm calling it idiotic to put the odds at 50/50.

I don't understand the fascination with Andre Drummond, he is basically a younger Deandre Jordan with better jumping ability. His touch on offense makes Tristan Thompson look like a skilled offensive player. I mean Drummond shoots the ball with the palm of his hand, he is never going to be a guy you throw the ball to and say go get us 20 points. His offense is always going to come from alley hoops or rebounds. He is always going to need someone to create for him. Dwight Howard was supposed to be the next great center but the thing is that the Ewings and Jabars don't exist anymore. All that is left today is 7 footers who can jump out the gym. How is Drummond's game any different than the Plumlee brothers or Larry Sanders. All of them are athletic guys with no offensive game.

With dion you have a guy who can get his own shot whenever he wants too as well as create for others. People say all of the time he is a selfish player but he has clearly showed he is a very good and willing passer. People forget that he is a shooting guard and a shooting guards number one priority is to score first not to assist but he is such a good passer that people get pissed when he shoots to much.

My favorite is how everyone says that he is just an inefficient scorer when he is shooting 43% and no one mentions that kyrie is shooting 43% but he is efficient. The almighty Klay Thompson is only shooting 44% but he is the greatest shooter ever in some peoples eyes, I mean Jerry West has even been quoted saying that he wants to see klay do more than just come off screens and shoot. We can't forget the next ray allen in Bradley Beal who is shooting a very efficient 41%.

Dion gets scrutinized way too much for a player who is not that far off percentage wise from some of the media's darlings at the shooting guard position in this league. He has shown the ability to blow past Lebron James and Paul George, some of the best defenders in this league with ease. Does he need to finish better, yes but let the kid develop before you label him.