Dion Waiters Traded

[staycoolbruh]

I would love to see Kyrie, Dion and Wiggins start next season! Season needs to start ASAP!!!!

 

[EdMonix11]

I think Dion could have a fruitful career in management after he retires. He sounds like my supervisor with his frequent use of "at the end of the day".


With all the talk of trading Dion, I've been watching a lot of his videos on youtube to see if he, Irving, and Wiggins can co-exist in a starting line-up. I'm of the belief that Wiggins is a SF. I know what Griff said, but honestly I take what he says with a grain of salt. Not that I don't believe he sees Wiggins as a SG. I'm waiting for Blatt to comment on it because he's the one that is going to set the rotation, not Griffin.


Re-watched his epic performance in the Rising Stars game.

[video=youtube;X4t0wR-2xks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4t0wR-2xks[/video]

I'm confident Blatt can get these guys to effectively play together.

Dion is a very good individual basketball player, as your video shows.

What Dion hasn't shown in the NBA, is any ability to play off the ball.

He doesn't cut to the basket. He doesn't run off screens. He doesn't really do anything at all off the ball other than stand and watch.

Everything Dion does well is with the ball in his hands and that's the problem....he's not the PG.

He doesn't have a future on this team until he realizes his job as a SG is to play and run HARDER without the ball than with it.

Maybe he gets, maybe he won't, but time is running out. Sergey is gonna be a-knockin'.....

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

Dion is a very good individual basketball player, as your video shows.

What Dion hasn't shown in the NBA, is any ability to play off the ball.

He doesn't cut to the basket. He doesn't run off screens. He doesn't really do anything at all off the ball other than stand and watch.

Everything Dion does well is with the ball in his hands and that's the problem....he's not the PG.

He doesn't have a future on this team until he realizes his job as a SG is to play and run HARDER without the ball than with it.

Maybe he gets, maybe he won't, but time is running out. Sergey is gonna be a-knockin'.....

I don't know about that last sentence (let's see if Sergey can prove he's even an NBA player first), but I agree with the rest. Dion is a solid enough spot up shooter, but his off the ball game is really bad. That's the main reason I still see him as a super combo guard 6th man. I hope he proves me wrong this season because he is super talented.

 

[rosebowl89]

Did Mike Brown even know people were allowed to move when they didn't have the ball?

 

[Biw]

Dion is a very good individual basketball player, as your video shows.

What Dion hasn't shown in the NBA, is any ability to play off the ball.

He doesn't cut to the basket. He doesn't run off screens. He doesn't really do anything at all off the ball other than stand and watch.

Everything Dion does well is with the ball in his hands and that's the problem....he's not the PG.

He doesn't have a future on this team until he realizes his job as a SG is to play and run HARDER without the ball than with it.

Maybe he gets, maybe he won't, but time is running out. Sergey is gonna be a-knockin'.....

I agree he needs to get better off the ball. I still think part of the problem is we haven't had a competent coach since we've drafted him. Under Scott and Brown there wasn't much cutting or ball movement to begin with. Just a stagnant ball pounding offense. From all accounts, Blatt runs a system with a lot of ball movement, cutting, and penetration. That's why I'm reserving judgement on whether or not Dion can play off the ball. I just don't think he's been coached properly.

If Blatt is the offensive genius he's been touted as, I'd prefer to keep Waiters and let Blatt coach him up. If it fails, then we can entertain a trade.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Dion is a very good individual basketball player, as your video shows.

What Dion hasn't shown in the NBA, is any ability to play off the ball.

He doesn't cut to the basket. He doesn't run off screens. He doesn't really do anything at all off the ball other than stand and watch.

Everything Dion does well is with the ball in his hands and that's the problem....he's not the PG.

He doesn't have a future on this team until he realizes his job as a SG is to play and run HARDER without the ball than with it.

Maybe he gets, maybe he won't, but time is running out. Sergey is gonna be a-knockin'.....

I don't know about that last sentence (let's see if Sergey can prove he's even an NBA player first), but I agree with the rest. Dion is a solid enough spot up shooter, but his off the ball game is really bad. That's the main reason I still see him as a super combo guard 6th man. I hope he proves me wrong this season because he is super talented.

His rookie year he was assisted on 39.6% of his total baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 31.1% of his 2 point baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 76.2% of his 3 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 46.5% of his total baskets. Last year he was assisted 35.5% of his 2 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 87% of his 3 point baskets. Almost half of his total baskets came without the ball in his hands this past year. Doesn't exactly scream "terrible off ball game and skills" to me. He is still developing that area, sure, but moving into a more movement-based offense this upcoming season will advance those skills even farther.

 

[malus]

I definitely remember Dion coming off screens and making backdoor cuts last season. It's true that he could do more of it and hopefully we see less ball-watching in general with Blatt running things.

 

[Fuggles]

His rookie year he was assisted on 39.6% of his total baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 31.1% of his 2 point baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 76.2% of his 3 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 46.5% of his total baskets. Last year he was assisted 35.5% of his 2 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 87% of his 3 point baskets. Almost half of his total baskets came without the ball in his hands this past year. Doesn't exactly scream "terrible off ball game and skills" to me. He is still developing that area, sure, but moving into a more movement-based offense this upcoming season will advance those skills even farther.

using stats is cheating :chuckles:

 

[BimboColesHair]

using stats is cheating :chuckles:

You don't even need stats. Just go watch the backdoor cuts from Delly to him, him rotating to an open spot for 3 instead of standing and watching like his rookie year, trailing for a kick back 3 on fast breaks, coming off of a low off-ball screen and hitting a mid-range jumper....out of all the complaints about players last year and how they didn't improve enough, Dion's off the ball improvements sure went unnoticed.

 

[Nathan S]

You don't even need stats. Just go watch the backdoor cuts from Delly to him, him rotating to an open spot for 3 instead of standing and watching like his rookie year, trailing for a kick back 3 on fast breaks, coming off of a low off-ball screen and hitting a mid-range jumper....out of all the complaints about players last year and how they didn't improve enough, Dion's off the ball improvements sure went unnoticed.

Who could forget the time where Delly and Dion basically just drew up a play on the fly at the end of the quarter, with Dion cutting from the corner to the basket and Delly hitting him with a beautiful pass?

Imagine having a coach who can actually draw up plays that involve off-ball movement, and who is willing to spend practice time perfecting those plays.


:spin::wiggle::spin::wiggle:

 

[EdMonix11]

His rookie year he was assisted on 39.6% of his total baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 31.1% of his 2 point baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 76.2% of his 3 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 46.5% of his total baskets. Last year he was assisted 35.5% of his 2 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 87% of his 3 point baskets. Almost half of his total baskets came without the ball in his hands this past year. Doesn't exactly scream "terrible off ball game and skills" to me. He is still developing that area, sure, but moving into a more movement-based offense this upcoming season will advance those skills even farther.

Problem with those stats is that they prove my point. Let's compare....

Dion Waiters:
2FGM AST %: 35.5%
3FGM AST %: 87%

Brad Beal:
2FGM AST %: 51.3%
3FGM AST %: 94.2%

Danny Green:
2FGM AST %: 70.9%
3FGM AST %: 91.7%

Klay Thompson:
2FGM AST %: 62.2%
3FGM AST %: 94.6%

I guess it's a matter of preference, but you're likely to find similar stats to SG's next to ball dominant PG's like we have here with Irving. Dion plays like he's a ball dominant SG like Harden, Wade, Crawford, etc. He's destined to be Jamal Crawford unless he changes his style of play......

 

[BimboColesHair]

Who could forget the time where Delly and Dion basically just drew up a play on the fly at the end of the quarter, with Dion cutting from the corner to the basket and Delly hitting him with a beautiful pass?

Imagine having a coach who can actually draw up plays that involve off-ball movement, and who is willing to spend practice time perfecting those plays.


:spin::wiggle::spin::wiggle:

As much as we all like to rag on Mike Brown, I think he deserves a little bit of credit for being tough on Dion and forcing him to play without the ball early on in the year. I honestly think the success he had the last few months of the year were the results of teams now worrying about him off the ball, which in turn made his play with the ball in his hands that much better. I also think he noticed how much easier it is to score and get good looks if you rotate and cut properly off the ball...and we all know Dion loves scoring and getting good looks.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Problem with those stats is that they prove my point. Let's compare....

Dion Waiters:
2FGM AST %: 35.5%
3FGM AST %: 87%

Brad Beal:
2FGM AST %: 51.3%
3FGM AST %: 94.2%

Danny Green:
2FGM AST %: 70.9%
3FGM AST %: 91.7%

Klay Thompson:
2FGM AST %: 62.2%
3FGM AST %: 94.6%

I guess it's a matter of preference, but you're likely to find similar stats to SG's next to ball dominant PG's like we have here with Irving. Dion plays like he's a ball dominant SG like Harden, Wade, Crawford, etc. He's destined to be Jamal Crawford unless he changes his style of play......

Beal, Green, and Thompson are all regarded as shooters. None of them are anywhere near as dynamic as Dion is with the ball in his hands. Why force Dion to be assisted on 50+% of his 2 point attempts when he is such a good player with the ball?

And you missed my point. The whole point was to show how he has improved off of the ball...this isn't a comparing contest to other players who have completely different types of offensive games.

edit: here, if you want to compare him to players who are similar to him

Waiters:
35.5% of his 2 point baskets
87% of his 3 point baskets

Wade:
40.1% of his 2 point baskets
39.9% of his 3 point baskets

Harden:
21.9% of his 2 point baskets
58.5% of his 3 point baskets

Westbrook:
25.7% of his 2 point baskets
40.6% of his 3 point baskets

 

[Nathan S]

As much as we all like to rag on Mike Brown, I think he deserves a little bit of credit for being tough on Dion and forcing him to play without the ball early on in the year. I honestly think the success he had the last few months of the year were the results of teams now worrying about him off the ball, which in turn made his play with the ball in his hands that much better. I also think he noticed how much easier it is to score and get good looks if you rotate and cut properly off the ball...and we all know Dion loves scoring and getting good looks.

Sure he forced him to play off the ball, but way too often Kyrie would be going to work with the ball on one wing and Dion would just be standing stationary on the other wing, 5-8 feet outside the 3-point line, waiting to get the ball or head back on defense. There was some cutting, sure, but not as much as there should have been, and part of that is because that just wasn't a priority in practices. It's good that he learned to play some defense under Mike Brown. That'll pay dividends in the long run. But man, I can't wait to see what this team looks like after they spend all of training camp practicing Blatt's offense.

 

[Fuggles]

Problem with those stats is that they prove my point. Let's compare....

Dion Waiters:
2FGM AST %: 35.5%
3FGM AST %: 87%

Brad Beal:
2FGM AST %: 51.3%
3FGM AST %: 94.2%

Danny Green:
2FGM AST %: 70.9%
3FGM AST %: 91.7%

Klay Thompson:
2FGM AST %: 62.2%
3FGM AST %: 94.6%

I guess it's a matter of preference, but you're likely to find similar stats to SG's next to ball dominant PG's like we have here with Irving. Dion plays like he's a ball dominant SG like Harden, Wade, Crawford, etc. He's destined to be Jamal Crawford unless he changes his style of play......

Keep moving them goal post.