Dion Waiters Traded

[EdMonix11]

Beal, Green, and Thompson are all regarded as shooters. None of them are anywhere near as dynamic as Dion is with the ball in his hands. Why force Dion to be assisted on 50+% of his 2 point attempts when he is such a good player with the ball?

And you missed my point. The whole point was to show how he has improved off of the ball...this isn't a comparing contest to other players who have completely different types of offensive games.

edit: here, if you want to compare him to players who are similar to him

Waiters:
35.5% of his 2 point baskets
87% of his 3 point baskets

Wade:
40.1% of his 2 point baskets
39.9% of his 3 point baskets

Harden:
21.9% of his 2 point baskets
58.5% of his 3 point baskets

Westbrook:
25.7% of his 2 point baskets
40.6% of his 3 point baskets

You're making my point for me....

We have two ball handlers looking to play an individuals game. The players you listed are ball dominant SG's.....

Why force Dion to be assisted on 50%+ on his 2pt FG's?

Because the ball sticks. Because 4 other players are standing and watching.....

Even Kyrie Irving was over 50% (51.3) on his 2pt FG's..... in that context, 35.5% is terrible.

I like Dion, I really do, he's an incredible talent, but it's looking more and more doubtful he's a fit here next to Kyrie Irving. The results haven't been good.

 

[Cashius X]

You're making my point for me....

We have two ball handlers looking to play an individuals game. The players you listed are ball dominant SG's.....

Why force Dion to be assisted on 50%+ on his 2pt FG's?

Because the ball sticks. Because 4 other players are standing and watching.....

Even Kyrie Irving was over 50% (51.3) on his 2pt FG's..... in that context, 35.5% is terrible.

I like Dion, I really do, he's an incredible talent, but it's looking more and more doubtful he's a fit here next to Kyrie Irving. The results haven't been good.

What results are you going off of? No product we've thrown on the court over the past 2 years has yielded especially good results...

I think some of you guys are closing the door on the Dion experiment way too soon. Byron Scott and Mike Brown didn't exactly make a concerted effort to make this backcourt pairing work.

Let's at least see how Kyrie and Dion look together in Blatt's motion centric offense before we quit on one of our talented guards.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Again, Ed, the point was to show improvement. I think you've missed that all together.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Problem with those stats is that they prove my point. Let's compare....

Dion Waiters:
2FGM AST %: 35.5%
3FGM AST %: 87%

Brad Beal:
2FGM AST %: 51.3%
3FGM AST %: 94.2%

Danny Green:
2FGM AST %: 70.9%
3FGM AST %: 91.7%

Klay Thompson:
2FGM AST %: 62.2%
3FGM AST %: 94.6%

I guess it's a matter of preference, but you're likely to find similar stats to SG's next to ball dominant PG's like we have here with Irving. Dion plays like he's a ball dominant SG like Harden, Wade, Crawford, etc. He's destined to be Jamal Crawford unless he changes his style of play......

How does comparing Dion to a bunch of spot-up guys make sense? We drafted him specifically because of his ability to create both for himself and others. He's never going to have the assisted two-point percentage those other guys have because, unlike them, he can find those shots for himself. I think the key above is the strides that Dion has made as a three point shooter. The fact that he was assisted on 87% of them last year tells me that he has mostly gotten away from taking bad three-pointers, which was something we all said that he needed to work on.

But asking him to be assisted on 60% of his twos is taking away one of the best aspects of his game: the ability to create separation and get off a shot off the dribble.

 

[OptimusPrime]

His rookie year he was assisted on 39.6% of his total baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 31.1% of his 2 point baskets. His rookie year he was assisted on 76.2% of his 3 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 46.5% of his total baskets. Last year he was assisted 35.5% of his 2 point baskets. Last year he was assisted on 87% of his 3 point baskets. Almost half of his total baskets came without the ball in his hands this past year. Doesn't exactly scream "terrible off ball game and skills" to me. He is still developing that area, sure, but moving into a more movement-based offense this upcoming season will advance those skills even farther.

Every game he was curling off screens and even cutting backdoor when there was a PG that would pass the ball on the floor with him. He needs to continue working on it, but he was more efficient scoring off the ball than on the ball last year. I would guess the vast majority of people writing him off haven't watched a Cavs game since Dion's rookie year, or maybe even longer than that.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

If we have Wiggins play the 2, that can really open up the door for Dion to be a super sixth man. We'll be clamoring for a player of his size and ability and alpha dog mentality to spell Kyrie and Wiggins and to close out games at the two while sliding Wiggins to the 3. I think Blatt has a hard on for Kyrie-Dion-Wiggins-Delly as our guard rotation

 

[Cavatt]

Also look at that list of shooters and then the list of "star" two guards. Who would you rather have as your #2-#3? Sorry if I'd rather have a Westbrook or Harden over a Klay Thompson. Klay is cool, I get why people like him, but at the end of the day, Dion is gonna be the better player. Dion is still 2 years younger and he hasn't maxed out his potential yet. Keep in mind OKC traded Harden for a spot up shooter and they have not made it back to the finals. Harden was a ball dominant guy who could rack up assists. Sound familiar?

Dion has close to elite if not elite handles
one of the best first steps in the league
shown growth on shot selection which was one of his major knocks coming in
his finishing has improved but people are still harping on that
His jump shot is much improved
He is too versatile to dump IMO

We have our Pippen finally, and people want to trade him away. We have 2 potential #1's as well as a 2rd #1 in Bennett who may still have something. You have to try to make this work.

Dion will be better in February than he is today, so if you trade him now it better be for an absolute slam dunk and Wiggins better be able to play the 2.

This is a decision that I would really prefer to defer until the trade deadline. Seriously, if I was the GM and Lebron was pushing for a Love or some other trade, I would try to convince him that once he is on the team, the value of our assets skyrocket due to the open looks they would get. It will be easier and more profitable to make a major trade in Feb than today.

I don't think the team can contend next year because it takes really excellent execution to win, but this roster and our new coach is going to give other team fits this year. Dion would be a major part of that.

 

[RuanuLaw]

I don't want to trade Dion for the simple fact that Kyrie can't stay healthy for a whole season. And when Kyrie goes down....enter Dion!!!

 

[jvl]

Dumping young talent is a bad idea. Lets see what Blatt can do with all our young talented players.

 

[Redzone]

Hell no, he must not go!

 

[Pioneer10]

I don't get why you want to trade Dion now that you have Wiggins under the fold.
Wiggins is good in the open court and has a good jump shot. He has a poor handle and has difficulty in the half court.
Enter one Dion Waiters, who is great at creating in the open court and would benefit from having a guy who can hit the corner 3 and finish layoffs. Dion has shown (particularly with Delly) that he is willing distributor and his ability to get in the lane is exactly what will help Wiggins and the Cavs when the game slows down.

Throw in that him and Wiggins should be easily + defenders next year should really help the Cavs cover Kyrie on defense. Plus with Wiggins Dion can guard the 2 and not have to worry about his length at the 3. Wiggins seems like a great fit honestly with Dion

 

[tristan+kyrie=$]

I am hyped for the Kyrie Dion Wiggins lineup...going to be the most fun I have had watching Cavs basketball in 4 years!

 

[Rich]

Also look at that list of shooters and then the list of "star" two guards. Who would you rather have as your #2-#3? Sorry if I'd rather have a Westbrook or Harden over a Klay Thompson. Klay is cool, I get why people like him, but at the end of the day, Dion is gonna be the better player. Dion is still 2 years younger and he hasn't maxed out his potential yet. Keep in mind OKC traded Harden for a spot up shooter and they have not made it back to the finals. Harden was a ball dominant guy who could rack up assists. Sound familiar?

Dion has close to elite if not elite handles
one of the best first steps in the league
shown growth on shot selection which was one of his major knocks coming in
his finishing has improved but people are still harping on that
His jump shot is much improved
He is too versatile to dump IMO

We have our Pippen finally, and people want to trade him away. We have 2 potential #1's as well as a 2rd #1 in Bennett who may still have something. You have to try to make this work.

Dion will be better in February than he is today, so if you trade him now it better be for an absolute slam dunk and Wiggins better be able to play the 2.

This is a decision that I would really prefer to defer until the trade deadline. Seriously, if I was the GM and Lebron was pushing for a Love or some other trade, I would try to convince him that once he is on the team, the value of our assets skyrocket due to the open looks they would get. It will be easier and more profitable to make a major trade in Feb than today.

I don't think the team can contend next year because it takes really excellent execution to win, but this roster and our new coach is going to give other team fits this year. Dion would be a major part of that.

Dion Waiters shot 49.7% from 5 feet and in this year. For guards with over 100 attempts at that distance that's good for 11th worst out of 106 qualified players (granted, the list includes some guys who folks would consider SFs).

For guards with over 200 attempts he finished 7th worst out of 54.

The killer? He was better last season. 50.3% from less than 5 feet.

It's a huge problem and he needs to show improvement basically as soon as the season starts.

 

[Adam]

Dion Waiters shot 49.7% from 5 feet and in this year. For guards with over 100 attempts at that distance that's good for 11th worst out of 106 qualified players (granted, the list includes some guys who folks would consider SFs).

For guards with over 200 attempts he finished 7th worst out of 54.

The killer? He was better last season. 50.3% from less than 5 feet.

It's a huge problem and he needs to show improvement basically as soon as the season starts.

Yes but if you take away the attempts where he thought he was fouled and screamed at the ref, he took a total of 0 shots within 5 feet all year.

Seriously, as soon as he stops worrying about whistles he will shoot a higher percentage

 

[Cavatt]

Dion Waiters shot 49.7% from 5 feet and in this year. For guards with over 100 attempts at that distance that's good for 11th worst out of 106 qualified players (granted, the list includes some guys who folks would consider SFs).

For guards with over 200 attempts he finished 7th worst out of 54.

The killer? He was better last season. 50.3% from less than 5 feet.

It's a huge problem and he needs to show improvement basically as soon as the season starts.

What are his numbers after December? He was markedly better later in the year and started to exhibit better body control IMO. In any case think about this. Only 54 guards can get to the hoop that often.

He definitely needs to protect the ball better, and he needs to stop complaining to the refs. That alone will change those numbers. He is going to draw significantly more fouls next year. I think he has a bad rep that keeps him from getting the calls. He would be at the line a lot more if he didn't complain so much. Opposing players know his rep too, and know they can manhandle him because he yells all the time. Hopefully, Blatt can beat that out of him.

Maybe you don't agree, but I can't tell if you even watch the games. You saw no improvement from him over the course of the year? Seemed like our most improved player to me.

I honestly haven't seen a single good talent evaluator on the board in all my time here. Keys has been best with guys like Delly. It's the hardest thing in sports, and pros get it wrong all the time. OKC didn't even get every pick right.

I really don't know why you pick on Dion. He is like the #3 or at worst #4 best pick from that draft. Right where we picked him and right on track to becoming an allstar. You should spend some time on Bennett because at least he hasn't shown any actual winning yet. Dion almost got us into the playoffs and single-handedly got us the #1 pick in the draft with his shot in Detroit while denying our old rivals their draft pick.

You take Bradley Beal or Klay Thompson, I'll take Dion and we will talk in 3 years. He's electric and he started getting consistent in year 2. That is really impressive.

OMG 49.7% from 50.3%! That is statistically insignificant. I'll put that in my circular file of trivia under "U" for utterly useless and irrelevant garbage.

On Mondays he only shot 11% on 3 point attempts, while on Tues and Sat he shot over 40%. He is a player that gets a bad case of the mondays y'know?

Sorry if I pay too much attention to the games he played after the allstar break when the roster was much more like an NBA team, and after he had more consistent minutes. I have long been a proponent of Dion as a Rhythm player and when he plays more minutes his TS% magically goes up. He really is a guy who heats up. When he plays under 20 min his TS% is under 40 around 20 min it is 50% and over 30 it climbs to 52%. In games where he played over 40 min his TS% almost 54%. You can count on him at the end of the games, but he does need touches to be effective.

He's really not a perfect player, but I can cherry pick stats to show all kinds of things too. We should bench him on Mondays. I am guessing Sunday night is his party night.

From 0-3 feet he shoots over 50%, but somehow that 3-5 foot area brings it down. Probably because he still hasn't gotten great at floaters or getting all the way there against NBA bigs.

Did you know that he shot 53% within 3 feet or did you pick the measurement that made him look worse?

This just tells me he has 2 major areas to improve on scoring wise. Improve the FT% and finishing around the basket. I just think he has the talent to do that and you don't. I'll stick with Jerry West, Byron Scott, Chris Grant, Griff, and all the announcers that exclaim when they see what Dion can do. You can stick with Edmonix11.