Dion Waiters Traded

[EdMonix11]

I don't get why you want to trade Dion now that you have Wiggins under the fold.
Wiggins is good in the open court and has a good jump shot. He has a poor handle and has difficulty in the half court.
Enter one Dion Waiters, who is great at creating in the open court and would benefit from having a guy who can hit the corner 3 and finish layoffs. Dion has shown (particularly with Delly) that he is willing distributor and his ability to get in the lane is exactly what will help Wiggins and the Cavs when the game slows down.

Throw in that him and Wiggins should be easily + defenders next year should really help the Cavs cover Kyrie on defense. Plus with Wiggins Dion can guard the 2 and not have to worry about his length at the 3. Wiggins seems like a great fit honestly with Dion

It's pretty simple for Dion.

Adapt and change the way he plays the game or be traded.

We can argue all we want but the Dion we've seen for most of his first two seasons isn't a fit next to Kyrie Irving. Sure, Waiters is probably more talented than Klay Thompson, but who is a better fit for this team? It's Thompson, easily.

He needs to realize that he needs to create for himself within the confines of the offense. Too many times the ball gets into Dion's hands, he stops the flow, calls for a screen, and plays 1 on 1 and forces a shot at the rim.

If Dion would embrace a true Shoot Guard role, and not a Combo Guard role with the ball in his hands, his combo guard-like skills would be very beneficial to the team and the half-court offense. He's a talented player and more than capable of thriving in a true SG role, but whether he does it is another story.....

 

[Cavatt]

It's pretty simple for Dion.

Adapt and change the way he plays the game or be traded.

We can argue all we want but the Dion we've seen for most of his first two seasons isn't a fit next to Kyrie Irving. Sure, Waiters is probably more talented than Klay Thompson, but who is a better fit for this team? It's Thompson, easily.

He needs to realize that he needs to create for himself within the confines of the offense. Too many times the ball gets into Dion's hands, he stops the flow, calls for a screen, and plays 1 on 1 and forces a shot at the rim.

If Dion would embrace a true Shoot Guard role, and not a Combo Guard role with the ball in his hands, his combo guard-like skills would be very beneficial to the team and the half-court offense. He's a talented player and more than capable of thriving in a true SG role, but whether he does it is another story.....

I'd agree with you except Kyrie doesn't generate enough offense as a true 1 to have a true 2. Dion is adapting his game and we have 2 coaches hired with one of their main expectation that they can make the back court work. Look at this video. What is Dion not going to be able to do in the future again? He can finish, just not consistently yet, and consistency is what young players struggle with most. He is good catching and shooting. Dion and Kyrie need to be looking for each other, it isn't a one way street.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Lyphaei46Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[PepsiRacer4]

It's pretty simple for Dion.

Adapt and change the way he plays the game or be traded.

We can argue all we want but the Dion we've seen for most of his first two seasons isn't a fit next to Kyrie Irving. Sure, Waiters is probably more talented than Klay Thompson, but who is a better fit for this team? It's Thompson, easily.

He needs to realize that he needs to create for himself within the confines of the offense. Too many times the ball gets into Dion's hands, he stops the flow, calls for a screen, and plays 1 on 1 and forces a shot at the rim.

If Dion would embrace a true Shoot Guard role, and not a Combo Guard role with the ball in his hands, his combo guard-like skills would be very beneficial to the team and the half-court offense. He's a talented player and more than capable of thriving in a true SG role, but whether he does it is another story.....

I don't know how you can claim he doesn't fit with Irving with their last two coaches gave no shits at all on trying to get them to mesh together. I truly believe this year with a legitimate head coach that Kyrie and Dion are gonna a venomous duo in the Eastern Conference. I'll be willing to eat crow if they can't and Dion has to end up being moved. It is absolutely crucial to have two guys who can handle the ball with skills such as those two do. Look at OKC, if they don't have to go through San Antonio and don't have the white Mike Brown, that team would be even more scary than they are now with proper coaching. Because they have two elite guys who can handle the ball in KD and Russ. That's two guys the defense has to account for and you can't constantly lock down the one all the time like what happened to Kyrie this year.

 

[gourimoko]

I'd agree with you except Kyrie doesn't generate enough offense as a true 1 to have a true 2. Dion is adapting his game and we have 2 coaches hired with one of their main expectation that they can make the back court work. Look at this video. What is Dion not going to be able to do in the future again? He can finish, just not consistently yet, and consistency is what young players struggle with most. He is good catching and shooting. Dion and Kyrie need to be looking for each other, it isn't a one way street.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Lyphaei46Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What's funny is that on about 10 of those plays, Dion is clearly fouled.. Watch the video and notice all the contact. In the King's game the defender tries to draw a charge in the restricted area... There's no call but plenty of contact... Why?

Once Dion can reliable draw fouls (meaning the refs start blowing the whistle) his stats will be much better. Take away Harden's FTA/game and he falls back down to Earth. Dion not getting calls is a big problem.

 

[Rich]

I'm breaking my rule against endless quotes. I just can't even begin to figure out this post.

I honestly haven't seen a single good talent evaluator on the board in all my time here. Keys has been best with guys like Delly. It's the hardest thing in sports, and pros get it wrong all the time. OKC didn't even get every pick right.

I don't even understand what this has to do with anything. Are you saying you're the sole good talent evaluator on the board? If not...well then I haven't a clue.

OMG 49.7% from 50.3%! That is statistically insignificant. I'll put that in my circular file of trivia under "U" for utterly useless and irrelevant garbage.

Do you remember what you said? About how everyone harps on Dion about his finishing even though it improved. Didn't improve. I can't help it that you don't like stats that directly contradict statements you make but instead of getting pissy I'd suggest just not making the statements in the first place.

On Mondays he only shot 11% on 3 point attempts, while on Tues and Sat he shot over 40%. He is a player that gets a bad case of the mondays y'know?

Set up those strawmen. I didn't give you a random stat that has no relevance. I gave you THE stat that goes against any notion whatsoever that Dion improved around the rim. It's not my fault he's right at the bottom of the run in the league at finishing at the rim for his position.

Maybe you don't agree, but I can't tell if you even watch the games.

Coming from the guy who said Dion improved his finishing? Yea...I'm the one who wasn't watching.

Did you know that he shot 53% within 3 feet or did you pick the measurement that made him look worse?

First of all, I'm coming up with 51%. Second of all, I'll let you go figure out just how bad that is. I'll put it this way, that's the worst percentage from that area on the team. By a wide, wide margin. Even if you include the exiled bums in the middle of the season, that's better than only Bynum. Yes, Earl Clark had a better percentage from less than 3 feet. But hey, cherry picking stats and all!

When he plays under 20 min his TS% is under 40 around 20 min it is 50% and over 30 it climbs to 52%. In games where he played over 40 min his TS% almost 54%. You can count on him at the end of the games, but he does need touches to be effective.

After just constructing a straw man about monday statistics vs Tuesday statistics, you come with this. You ever think the games he plays less minutes might have to do with him playing bad?

I'll stick with Jerry West, Byron Scott, Chris Grant, Griff, and all the announcers that exclaim when they see what Dion can do.

Again..what? Do you want me to list off all of the people who don't think all that highly of Dion? Do I win the prize if I list more names or something?

Bottom line this for you, Dion Waiters is not just below average at finishing at the rim. He's really, really bad at it. Right down there with the worst of the worst at it. It's a big problem.

 

[Rich]

I don't know how you can claim he doesn't fit with Irving with their last two coaches gave no shits at all on trying to get them to mesh together. I truly believe this year with a legitimate head coach that Kyrie and Dion are gonna a venomous duo in the Eastern Conference. I'll be willing to eat crow if they can't and Dion has to end up being moved. It is absolutely crucial to have two guys who can handle the ball with skills such as those two do. Look at OKC, if they don't have to go through San Antonio and don't have the white Mike Brown, that team would be even more scary than they are now with proper coaching. Because they have two elite guys who can handle the ball in KD and Russ. That's two guys the defense has to account for and you can't constantly lock down the one all the time like what happened to Kyrie this year.

Byron Scott was Dion Waiters number 1 fan. If he gave up on trying to make them fit, what does that tell you?

Dion is a ball stopper of the highest order. Unfortunately, Kyrie Irving is also a ball stopper of the highest order. It's really, really hard to play with two ball stopping guards. And one of them is clearly more talented than the other so if push comes to shove, Dion will be traded unless he decides to move w/o the ball more and stop catching and holding for half a decade.

 

[Tornicade]

Considering it took 2 seasons and 3 months for Kyrie to realize if he passes the ball he will get it back .. Im not sure the fit issue was ever on DION.

One thing thugh is that having more outside shooters will certainly help both irving and Dion finishing on the drive.

Also Dions drive had a high team scoring rate emaning despite his low shooting percentage the team scored quite effectively when he did drive.
All stats are tabulated without bynum

Kyrie and Dion on MIN POSS P PTS FGA PPP PPS eFG TS FG% %A 957 1851 92.8 2011 1687 1.086 1.042 48.5 52.1 44.3 52.5 <tbody> </tbody>

<tbody>
</tbody>

Kyrie on Dion off

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
1127	2170	92.4	2326	1974	1.072	1.049	48.4	52.5	44.2	60.0

<tbody>
</tbody>

Dion on Kyrie Off

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
1005	1910	91.2	2010	1719	1.053	1.042	48.8	52.1	43.9	59.2

<tbody>
</tbody>

Dion off and kyrie off

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
413	812	94.4	809	717	0.996	1.001	46.2	50.1	42.5	65.2

<tbody>
</tbody>

This shows the assist percentage drops when they both are on the court but not much else. the team was just as effective shooting the ball whether Irving or Dion were on the court as if they were both on the court. indicating more along the lines of Dion not being a poor fits but Irving and Dion not capitalizing on their advantages.

now we look at march 1st on.. this is when Waiters really started growing on the court
Waiters on kyrie off from 03/01 first on

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
450	856	91.3	939	771	1.097	1.093	52.1	54.6	47.3	60.5

<tbody>
</tbody>

Irving on Waiters off

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
223	430	92.7	463	385	1.077	1.078	49.9	53.9	45.2	54.6

<tbody>
</tbody>

Waiters and Irving

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
244	478	94.0	499	425	1.044	1.051	48.8	52.5	44.7	54.7

<tbody>
</tbody>

This i

s when waiters was elevating the offense to another level. meanwhile the ball wasnt moving as well when kyrie was on the court whether dion was on the court or not.

I want to see Dion and irving function at that 60% assist level. I believe the team numbers would go through the roof.

I have no doubt s that dion will get and share the ball with wiggins. he did so with bennett even thugh bennett was struggling..


My concerns is kyrie and not his own individual numbers but getting the ball out there and setting up good shots for others.

Irvings ability to break down and offense and take out their soul should be his ace in the hole not his base offense and i think his time on the olympic team may help him see that.

speaking of mike browns offense.. how did the guys do without Irving and Waiters on the court after march 1st .

MIN	POSS	P	PTS	FGA	PPP	PPS	eFG	TS	FG%	%A
144	294	98.1	334	248	1.135	1.179	55.4	58.9	51.2	71.7

<tbody>
</tbody>

thats kickass production off the bench.

 

[oasis05]

I'd swap waiters for taj gibson. Gibson would allow us to resign Hawes, and cover up his defensive deficiencies.

Irving
Delly
Wiggins
Gibson
Varejao

Could end up with the best front court defense in the league if wiggins comes in to the league reasy to defend.

Think chicago needs to do something for their offense besides wait for rose to come back. Noah provides enough D in the front court.

 

[mcfly]

I like Gibson, and I feel he is one of the few defensive PFs who can cover for an average to below average center, but I am not trading Waiters for him. If we thought such a swap would put us into contention, then I think about it. Otherwise, I do not move a promising 22 year old guard on a rookie contract for a 29 year old PF who has never player 30mpg for a season.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Chicago has been reportedly shopping Boozer because they too see Taj Gibson as a starting power forward. I'm guessing Gibson won't be available and Boozer ends up in Utah or Orlando.

 

[mhi]

The Cavaliers view Andrew Wiggins as a "big two-guard", according to general manager David Griffin.
This might explain the Cavs' interest in Trevor Ariza as he would presumable slide in at the small forward spot while the 6'8" Wiggins would serve as the shooting guard. Wiggins and Ariza are both strong defenders and could help take some pressure off of the defensively-challenged Kyrie Irving, while Irving's offensive prowess could provide Wiggins some time to develop his offensive game and focus on his draft night goal of making the All-Defensive team.

I would love a 1-2-3 of Irving Wiggins and Ariza.

My contention has always been that the reason Irving and Waiters cannot share a backcourt, is strictly because of defense. One of them has to be a big plus defensively and you know it's not gonna be Irving.

We could then feature a strong bench that has Waiters as the lead ballhandler.

 

[SteelSmack]

Dion looked like he had the makings of a shut down defender at times last year. The things he struggled in (rotations!) usually come with time. Man to man, he looked (potentially) stellar, and he's not getting pushed around in the post, so height isn't an issue.

 

[Henry Tuttle]

I'd swap waiters for taj gibson. Gibson would allow us to resign Hawes, and cover up his defensive deficiencies.

Irving
Delly
Wiggins
Gibson
Varejao

Could end up with the best front court defense in the league if wiggins comes in to the league reasy to defend.

Think chicago needs to do something for their offense besides wait for rose to come back. Noah provides enough D in the front court.

 

[falcon2294]

The only problem with that trade (other than giving up dion) would be starting delly. I like dellys game, but no way is he a starter. Hes great for that energy off the bunch role

Edit: now if we could maybe trade for Martin from the wolves, he would fit that staring role pretty well.

 

[Zen]

I think we are going to have a lot of sad people here when Dion gets traded. As much as I love the guy I think the writing is on the wall. He is the antithesis of everything that Griffin has indicated he wants.

I'm going to have some really mixed feelings when he is moved, especially when we get a donkey back in return. I've always maintained that I don't see him as a starter on a good team, but damn you have to like his heart.