Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

[Nathan S]

Cleveland ranks 10th in points scored and 27th in points allowed so far this season. This team's potential hinges on its ability to form a strong defensive identity...and I'm not sure there's any chance of that happening with Millsap or Jefferson in the middle, especially Jefferson. Factor in that both of these guys have had slow starts to the season, shooting in the low 40's, have never been terribly efficient to being with, and are unlikely to improve on either end of the floor, and it's hard for me to get excited about this potential move. I'm not sure it would make the Cavs significantly better, let alone make them a contender. And if you're not making a contender, then what are you doing picking up a contract like that?

 

[Smooth]

If I had my pick of the two, I would prefer Millsap... But I also think he would be the hardest to get and who Utah will ultimately try to keep... I really think if you were to put him in this environment, he would flourish and develop into an All-Star big... A multi-faceted player who could play the pick-and-pop and get buckets on the low-block on this team would be huge... He's also a decent defender and a very good rebounder... Al Jefferson, I'm not really high on but I recognize the value of his low-post scoring ability combined with age... And that intersection of where he's at with those two things is rare to be available, which is why he's attractive..

I guess the point of this thread wasn't more so about trade ideas or about the Utah big mean...

The root of the question is my main concern going forward: where do the Cavs get their future low-post player?

The Cavs are at a point where I don't think they're crappy enough to get a high pick to get a Zeller or McAdoo and I don't think the draft is deep enough to have a talent of the type of ability they need, fall to them in the later portion of the lotto... Historically, that's not where you get your impact players....And even looking forward down the road two years from now, I think you'll start to see this team looking to leap out of the lottery... Obviously that's a lot of projection but like I said, my main concern is where this team is going to find this piece.. I'm having a hard time seeing it, which is why I brought up Utah...

 

[MD13]

If I had my pick of the two, I would prefer Millsap... But I also think he would be the hardest to get and who Utah will ultimately try to keep... I really think if you were to put him in this environment, he would flourish and develop into an All-Star big... A multi-faceted player who could play the pick-and-pop and get buckets on the low-block on this team would be huge... He's also a decent defender and a very good rebounder... Al Jefferson, I'm not really high on but I recognize the value of his low-post scoring ability combined with age... And that intersection of where he's at with those two things is rare to be available, which is why he's attractive..

I guess the point of this thread wasn't more so about trade ideas or about the Utah big mean...

The root of the question is my main concern going forward: where do the Cavs get their future low-post player?

The Cavs are at a point where I don't think they're crappy enough to get a high pick to get a Zeller or McAdoo and I don't think the draft is deep enough to have a talent of the type of ability they need, fall to them in the later portion of the lotto... Historically, that's not where you get your impact players....And even looking forward down the road two years from now, I think you'll start to see this team looking to leap out of the lottery... Obviously that's a lot of projection but like I said, my main concern is where this team is going to find this piece.. I'm having a hard time seeing it, which is why I brought up Utah...

If we identify a big who's worth going for, all we'd need to do is trade Andy for a late lotto/mid-1st draft pick and a young player or two. With our lack of depth, I could easily see us dropping down to at least 3-8, and we'd have two additional first round picks. If we like a big man enough, it'd be tough for a team to say no to 3 1st rounders + cash + a 2nd or two.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this team lacks any semblance of depth right now, and any prolonged absence of one of our top 3 (Kyrie, Dion, Andy) would be devastating for our record this season. Nothing's off the table *yet*.

 

[mhi]

Defense would be the problem here. They could flip us one of Kanter or Favors (as they both can't work next to each other).

Kanter for Thompson.

 

[Layne Staley]

If I had my pick of the two, I would prefer Millsap... But I also think he would be the hardest to get and who Utah will ultimately try to keep... I really think if you were to put him in this environment, he would flourish and develop into an All-Star big... A multi-faceted player who could play the pick-and-pop and get buckets on the low-block on this team would be huge... He's also a decent defender and a very good rebounder... Al Jefferson, I'm not really high on but I recognize the value of his low-post scoring ability combined with age... And that intersection of where he's at with those two things is rare to be available, which is why he's attractive..

I guess the point of this thread wasn't more so about trade ideas or about the Utah big mean...

The root of the question is my main concern going forward: where do the Cavs get their future low-post player?

The Cavs are at a point where I don't think they're crappy enough to get a high pick to get a Zeller or McAdoo and I don't think the draft is deep enough to have a talent of the type of ability they need, fall to them in the later portion of the lotto... Historically, that's not where you get your impact players....And even looking forward down the road two years from now, I think you'll start to see this team looking to leap out of the lottery... Obviously that's a lot of projection but like I said, my main concern is where this team is going to find this piece.. I'm having a hard time seeing it, which is why I brought up Utah...

With the way the this team is heading, it seems a top 5 pick is probably out of the question. But this doesn't rule out the possibility of trading into a top 5 spot....especially with all the assets the cavs have.

 

[rabman_gold]

I can name a few reasons why we shouldn't bite on the two veterans in the Jazz frontcourt.

1. Neither of them have necessarily contributed to great success on a team, so why would they make a huge impact now?
2. They're in the 27 year old range, they may only have 5 years left, which is when our core players reach their prime.
3. We would probably have to let go of a few assets, unless the Jazz succumb to the pressure of salary.
4. We could get even more assets for the Draft, which means we more in our toolbox to trade for either a real impact guy or get multiple core pieces, maybe a low post player that has the promise of making an impact.

While Paul seems like the better choice, it's not so simple. The Cavs will most likely drive a hard bargain closer to the trade deadline. I'd like to see what opens up, because I would think the front office would set their sights even higher than we would imagine.

 

[mofire]

I can name a few reasons why we shouldn't bite on the two veterans in the Jazz frontcourt.

1. Neither of them have necessarily contributed to great success on a team, so why would they make a huge impact now?
2. They're in the 27 year old range, they may only have 5 years left, which is when our core players reach their prime.
3. We would probably have to let go of a few assets, unless the Jazz succumb to the pressure of salary.
4. We could get even more assets for the Draft, which means we more in our toolbox to trade for either a real impact guy or get multiple core pieces, maybe a low post player that has the promise of making an impact.

While Paul seems like the better choice, it's not so simple. The Cavs will most likely drive a hard bargain closer to the trade deadline. I'd like to see what opens up, because I would think the front office would set their sights even higher than we would imagine.

I agree with all your points except the 27 year old range comment. If Lamarcus Aldridge went on the trading block you better believe I would want the cavs to do what it takes to get him here. I'm not comparing Aldridges talent with that of Millsap or Jefferson I'm just saying 27 years old isn't that big of a deal you can still get a good 7 years out of most players depending on their past health history.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I think the best thing I could say about Al Jefferson is this:

We would be the spitting image of the Grizzles, and Jefferson would be our Zach Randolph.

Not a good thing. Not a bad thing. But that would be a treadmill of mediocrity thing.

 

[rabman_gold]

I agree with all your points except the 27 year old range comment. If Lamarcus Aldridge went on the trading block you better believe I would want the cavs to do what it takes to get him here. I'm not comparing Aldridges talent with that of Millsap or Jefferson I'm just saying 27 years old isn't that big of a deal you can still get a good 7 years out of most players depending on their past health history.

Like said in the column below, you'd like to target a bigger impact player. LaMarcus by himself made the Trailblazers above average. He also can play both center and power forward. Jefferson is too bulky to spend time at power forward and Milsap is too small to handle post action on the big stage. But those are the exceptions to the rule and the most unlikely guys to come, unless the impact players become available.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Well, I don't see us trading for either guy. Our best trade asset is Anderson Varejao, and he's a guy Utah doesn't need, as their frontcourt is crowded enough already. I'm not sure what else we have that Utah needs other than draft picks, and I wouldn't send draft picks for Millsap or Jefferson.

I also don't see us going after either guy in free agency. Why overpay for Millsap or Jefferson when you can overpay for Josh Smith or Bynum (assuming either would come here)? Both are much better than Millsap or Jefferson.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think the best thing I could say about Al Jefferson is this:

We would be the spitting image of the Grizzles, and Jefferson would be our Zach Randolph.

Not a good thing. Not a bad thing. But that would be a treadmill of mediocrity thing.

Jefferson and Randolph do have a lot in common on the offensive end. Both players are a load on the low post and get plenty of offensive rebounds, which is one of the hardest holes to fill on an NBA team. Jefferson has much better hands and plays a smarter game. Al has averaged around one turnover a game compared to Randolph and his career average of two turnovers a game. Jefferson is a much better player defensively, averaging a full blocked shot more than Randolph. Jefferson can play a little center while Randolph is a pure power forward. Jefferson is also a full four years younger than Randolph.

What is comes down to for me is Jefferson's efficiency. You aren't going to have a chance to get a player like him very often. I was listening to a number of Jazz podcasts this summer when CJ Miles was rumored to be on his way to Cleveland, and I know both the player and organization don't see a future with Jefferson in Salt Lake.

Depending upon what the Jazz ask in return, I wouldn't write this off.

 

[rabman_gold]

Jefferson and Randolph do have a lot in common on the offensive end. Both players are a load on the low post and get plenty of offensive rebounds, which is one of the hardest holes to fill on an NBA team. Jefferson has much better hands and plays a smarter game. Al has averaged around one turnover a game compared to Randolph and his career average of two turnovers a game. Jefferson is a much better player defensively, averaging a full blocked shot more than Randolph. Jefferson can play a little center while Randolph is a pure power forward. Jefferson is also a full four years younger than Randolph.

What is comes down to for me is Jefferson's efficiency. You aren't going to have a chance to get a player like him very often. I was listening to a number of Jazz podcasts this summer when CJ Miles was rumored to be on his way to Cleveland, and I know both the player and organization don't see a future with Jefferson in Salt Lake.

Depending upon what the Jazz ask in return, I wouldn't write this off.

When I saw this post, you got me to rethinking it a little. Personally, I've not been impressed with Al's career in leading a team, but if you were to make some upgrades, he might be worth it. Right now, you have your star point guard, a possible future star combo guard, a defensive swingman, a potential energy big, and a solid center. Add in a 18-8 big man, a solid swingman, and solid backup point guard and you might be able to make it work. But that requires us to use all of our assets to put together and I'm uncertain if that's the direction Grant would want to (or should) go in. You still should have a 10 deep team with 2 other guys who could play in a pinch (injury concerns) and aren't flat out horrible. Anyways, we want to compete for 5-7 years. But that's the length of Al's effectiveness since he'll be 34 and at the end of his prime. Is 5-7 years enough time to become a champion?

I'd like to keep watching our current team and see what they decide to do. There will be plenty of sellers for us now that we're one of the few teams with massive space My preference would be for a scoring threat big man that's 25 years of age at the end of the season or younger. I'm still not convinced that Al's the one though.

 

[Lee]

I guess the point of this thread wasn't more so about trade ideas or about the Utah big men...

.

Is it me, or does Utah Big Men sound like the ultimate oxymoron?

........ A Moron gay bar :chuckles:

 

[Lee]

Well, I don't see us trading for either guy. Our best trade asset is Anderson Varejao, and he's a guy Utah doesn't need, as their frontcourt is crowded enough already. I'm not sure what else we have that Utah needs other than draft picks, and I wouldn't send draft picks for Millsap or Jefferson.

I also don't see us going after either guy in free agency. Why overpay for Millsap or Jefferson when you can overpay for Josh Smith or Bynum (assuming either would come here)? Both are much better than Millsap or Jefferson.

Our best trade asset is a ton of future 1st round picks and cap space. We could make a trade for Jefferson and keep Andy for now.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I think the best thing I could say about Al Jefferson is this:

We would be the spitting image of the Grizzles, and Jefferson would be our Zach Randolph.

Not a good thing. Not a bad thing. But that would be a treadmill of mediocrity thing.

If Jefferson could "find his game" much like Randolph has since he's grown up and played in Memphis and have the same impact on a game that Z-Bo has, that combined with the perimeter talent that the Cavs have could develop into a contending team.

My concern with Jefferson isn't that he's too much like Z-Bo, it's that he isn't quite enough like Z-Bo. Jefferson has pretty moves and good touch, but Randolph is a bull in the paint..an unstoppable force--- I'm not sure if Jefferson can replicate that part of Z-Bo's game...pure force. If he could, you combine that with a dynamic back-court, a superstar pg, a defensive-stud big man and a good bench and you could have a contender on your hands.