Elon Musk Vs. John Broder of NYTimes

[The Oi]

Parking garages with charging stations would make it take minimal real estate.

Would be a good idea for sure. But...that still leaves the issue of having to find a parking garage where one either doesn't exist or is way out of the way from your destination.

I'm sorry, but this technology can't be forced. It's all about finding a way to produce a charge that lasts close to as long as a tank of gas that requires charging for a similar amount of time to filling up.

When that happens...then you've got some incredibly useful technology.

 

[The Voice]

Would be a good idea for sure. But...that still leaves the issue of having to find a parking garage where one either doesn't exist or is way out of the way from your destination.

I'm sorry, but this technology can't be forced. It's all about finding a way to produce a charge that lasts close to as long as a tank of gas that requires charging for a similar amount of time to filling up.

When that happens...then you've got some incredibly useful technology.

You will never find what you are looking for. There's no way you can charge a battery in 2 minutes.

Picture this, head down to the Q and charge your car. Head over to Crocker Park/Leggacy Village and charge your car. Head over to the hospital and charge your car. These are places you are most likely to spend over an hour at other then your house. Horseshoe as well and literally any parking garage during the hours of 6am-6pm pretty much work as well too due to work.

 

[RTrees]

Even if there were as many charging stations as there are gas stations today, it wouldn't be enough if everybody had an e-car. If it took an hour to charge and go that hour wouldn't compare to the amount of time you'd be waiting in line for a free charger.

Imagine if everyone took an hour to pump. You get there first thing in the morning and luck out and only have a 3 car wait in front of you. That's 4 hours of your day. It aint happenin'.

And it wouldn't be a 3 car wait because cars would pile up in a line long enough to go all the way back to your house. They're only getting out of each charger at the station at a rate of one per hour. To make cars get out of the station at the rate they do at gas stations they'd have to increase the number of chargers at each station to be 30 times (if pumping gas takes 2 minutes) the number of gas pumps they have now. And if there are 12 pumps at a gas station, you'd need (30x12) 360 chargers at that station to compare. You'd need a lot of concrete and land to make space for 360 cars charging at once. Every "gas" station would be the size of a mall parking lot. Not a great use of space.

These cars at the moment are for local driving only because the only sensible place to charge them is at home.

You don't want to see entire cities use up all their space for charging stations. Even if you stack them and make it a charging garage instead, you'd need a lot of levels and it would just get so ugly and wasteful.

This idea for charging stations, even if people had all the patience in the world (which we know they don't), until they cut down on charge time dramatically the whole thing is farther away than most people think. They'd just eat up so much space it's ridiculous.

 

[The Oi]

Picture this, head down to the Q and charge your car. Head over to Crocker Park/Leggacy Village and charge your car. Head over to the hospital and charge your car. These are places you are most likely to spend over an hour at other then your house. Horseshoe as well and literally any parking garage during the hours of 6am-6pm pretty much work as well too due to work.

What you just described sounds like a logistical nightmare. I can't even imagine what an attorney who's livelihood depends on being at court on time (and usually has to park in an outdoor lot), an outside salesman with scheduled appointments (outdoor lot) or a police officer (all over the city) would think of NEEDING to do that every time they go somewhere.

You will never find what you are looking for. There's no way you can charge a battery in 2 minutes.

And that exact thought is why whomever comes up with one will be a billionaire. Because if that happens...existing stations will be more willing to provide them, new charging stations will open up, and more companies will manufacture electric cars...because then it will be ready for mass consumption. We've been saying things can't be created since the beginning of time, and then when it happens...people get rich.

Even if there were as many charging stations as there are gas stations today, it wouldn't be enough if everybody had an e-car. If it took an hour to charge and go that hour wouldn't compare to the amount of time you'd be waiting in line for a free charger.

Imagine if everyone took an hour to pump. You get there first thing in the morning and luck out and only have a 3 car wait in front of you. That's 4 hours of your day. It aint happenin'.

And it wouldn't be a 3 car wait because cars would pile up in a line long enough to go all the way back to your house. They're only getting out of each charger at the station at a rate of one per hour. To make cars get out of the station at the rate they do at gas stations they'd have to increase the number of chargers at each station to be 30 times (if pumping gas takes 2 minutes) the number of gas pumps they have now. And if there are 12 pumps at a gas station, you'd need (30x12) 360 chargers at that station to compare. You'd need a lot of concrete and land to make space for 360 cars charging at once. Every "gas" station would be the size of a mall parking lot. Not a great use of space.

These cars at the moment are for local driving only because the only sensible place to charge them is at home.

You don't want to see entire cities use up all their space for charging stations. Even if you stack them and make it a charging garage instead, you'd need a lot of levels and it would just get so ugly and wasteful.

This idea for charging stations, even if people had all the patience in the world (which we know they don't), until they cut down on charge time dramatically the whole thing is farther away than most people think. They'd just eat up so much space it's ridiculous.

Dead on. BUT, if you can find a way to shorten the charging time...the supply side will find a way to cater to the consumers. Charging stations will be made available to the cars that need it. Whether that means more real estate for existing stations, more stations opening up across the street from each other, etc, etc...they'll find a way.

 

[RTrees]

I swear I'm not high right now.. I'm about to blow your mind though..

Solution? Charge the ROADS!

Instead of rubber tires, you'd need some conductive material. Charged lanes along the lines the wheels go. Have lines on the road so people can stay on track visually..

Just can't drive most places, as they'd never get to all the roads.. or when it's raining.. or at temps below dew point..

Nevermind.

 

[KI4MVP]

What you just described sounds like a logistical nightmare. I can't even imagine what an attorney who's livelihood depends on being at court on time (and usually has to park in an outdoor lot), an outside salesman with scheduled appointments (outdoor lot) or a police officer (all over the city) would think of NEEDING to do that every time they go somewhere.

Just because there are people it wouldn't work for doesn't mean there aren't people it would work for. Trying to solve the all case first is the wrong way to go about things.

 

[Maximus]

I swear I'm not high right now.. I'm about to blow your mind though..

Solution? Charge the ROADS!

Instead of rubber tires, you'd need some conductive material. Charged lanes along the lines the wheels go. Have lines on the road so people can stay on track visually..

Just can't drive most places, as they'd never get to all the roads.. or when it's raining.. or at temps below dew point..

Nevermind.

MIT has been working on wireless recharging roads for years. It think where you'd see it first is at traffic lights and stop signs. Doing it for long stretches of roads while cars are moving would be exponentially more expensive. They also have floated the idea of using this type of tech in home garage floors so you don't even have to plug in your car. You park on top of the recharging surface and you are good to go.

 

[The Voice]

What you just described sounds like a logistical nightmare. I can't even imagine what an attorney who's livelihood depends on being at court on time (and usually has to park in an outdoor lot), an outside salesman with scheduled appointments (outdoor lot) or a police officer (all over the city) would think of NEEDING to do that every time they go somewhere.

If a cop is going to the Q I'm assuming it is either to work (as a guard) or to watch the game. You are right it would not work for people who drive more then the average American, but I already stated that.

And that exact thought is why whomever comes up with one will be a billionaire. Because if that happens...existing stations will be more willing to provide them, new charging stations will open up, and more companies will manufacture electric cars...because then it will be ready for mass consumption. We've been saying things can't be created since the beginning of time, and then when it happens...people get rich.

Until I can do that with my phone or laptop, I just don't see it happening with a car.

Dead on. BUT, if you can find a way to shorten the charging time...the supply side will find a way to cater to the consumers. Charging stations will be made available to the cars that need it. Whether that means more real estate for existing stations, more stations opening up across the street from each other, etc, etc...they'll find a way.

It's not just about charge time, it is also battery life.

 

[KI4MVP]

I don't care who they have trying to make this thing safe...the ONLY way to make it safe is if all the cars on the road are the same size/weight.

Honestly, would you ever give one of these to your kids? You could give it to me for free and i wouldn't let someone i care about drive it.

The safety of this specific care isn't the main point. The main point is a fairly inexpensive vehicle with enough range to last a typical daily commute plus some room to spare and that charges overnight would have a better chance of establishing a market than an expensive vehicle that is sold as something you are supposed to drive on long trips and recharge on the go. It's just not feasible to expect people to take an hour long charging stops avery couple hundred miles. Sell something less expensive that isn't intended to be used for that. Be a families second car, not their first.

 

[The Oi]

Just because there are people it wouldn't work for doesn't mean there aren't people it would work for. Trying to solve the all case first is the wrong way to go about things.

Sure. There's niche markets in every industry, including automotive. But (a) who will this work for? (B) when it comes to alternative energy, it seems to me that the real goal is mass consumption.

 

[The Voice]

Sure. There's niche markets in every industry, including automotive. But (a) who will this work for? (B) when it comes to alternative energy, it seems to me that the real goal is mass consumption.

The cops, firemen/emt's, deliverers, drivers, taxis are an exception not the norm. They are the niche you speak of.

 

[RTrees]

MIT has been working on wireless recharging roads for years. It think where you'd see it first is at traffic lights and stop signs. Doing it for long stretches of roads while cars are moving would be exponentially more expensive. They also have floated the idea of using this type of tech in home garage floors so you don't even have to plug in your car. You park on top of the recharging surface and you are good to go.

Not sure its similar to what they're working on (likely not), but magnets under roads on the downside of inclines (ramps and hills?) would actually produce a free charge for a moving car if it was equipped to absorb the charge. A change in magnetic field can produce a current. Not a significant part of the charge you need for the day, but maybe a little piece of the collage of places we could draw energy from. If you live in the Rockies you could get a bit out of it. But I'm not sureif the returns from doing it in parking garage ramps and small city inclines is enough to justify the cost of putting them there.

Edit: You can also harness the power of gravity on these trips downhill, if the wheels were equipped with magnets in the right way. We waste a lot of energy going uphill, we could stand to recoup a lot more of that energy on the way down by equipping our cars better, if not just the roads themselves.

 

[The Voice]

You could also install solar panels on the roof of the vehicle, but I don't think it would be worth it. Solar energy is probably still too far away.

 

[The Oi]

The cops, firemen/emt's, deliverers, drivers, taxis are an exception not the norm. They are the niche you speak of.

I'm not following you. When I say niche industry, I mean a small and specific target audience that purchases an item. I would think that the people you listed as exception would be the OPPOSITE of the current clientele for an electric car.

Are you suggesting that they should be the target of future electric vehicle developments or are we misunderstanding each other?

 

[KI4MVP]

Sure. There's niche markets in every industry, including automotive. But (a) who will this work for? (B) when it comes to alternative energy, it seems to me that the real goal is mass consumption.

Perhaps that's the long term goal, you have to hit short term goals first. ANd the short term goals, which are easier and cheaper to solve, could have a massive impact on our energy usage. Most people spend a lot more time driving to and from work and other local places than they do driving on long trips.