ESPN Player ranking - The Cavs players

[cjbradham]

Kyrie and Waiters < Wall and Beal (as of today!)

Cavs >>>>> Wizards (for the next 10 years)

 

[blazenmp]

I think it's way closer than you guys act like.

If you go to a Wiz forum they'll all say Wall. On a Cavs forum, everyone will say Irving.

Very, very interested in comparing these two this year.

Not true, we have one knucklehead that will say Wall.

 

[shoes22]

Kyrie and Waiters < Wall and Beal (as of today!)

I disagree with this, only because I think Kyrie is better than both Wall and Beal, so anything Waiters provides is icing on the cake.

LeBron is on record saying he thinks Kyrie could be the best PG in the NBA this year, and I agree with him. I wouldn't question Bron's bball IQ.

 

[Chris]

Not true, we have one knucklehead that will say Wall.

First of all I said I would be tempted to take Wall, second of all insulting people just makes you look like a fool.

Believe it or not Irving was a disaster last year and Wall led his team to the playoffs. Draw your own conclusions.

Now I guess this list is for this coming year which makes zero sense to me so I won't even go there. But as of right now? Its highly debateable.

 

[Cavatt]

Paul Pierce is not what he used to be, but he will be a really good influence on Wall and Beal. Our own back court is still growing, but so is theirs. I'd say Wall and Beal complement each other better, but Kyrie and Dion are both more complete players at least offensively.

 

[blazenmp]

First of all I said I would be tempted to take Wall, second of all insulting people just makes you look like a fool.

Believe it or not Irving was a disaster last year and Wall led his team to the playoffs. Draw your own conclusions.

Now I guess this list is for this coming year which makes zero sense to me so I won't even go there. But as of right now? Its highly debateable.

I can agree with this to an extent, but I wouldn't say Irving was a disaster of his own doing. I think if Wall was on this team, he'd have been more of a disaster last year.

And please don't take that as an insult, it was meant light hearted. I was pointing out that you said we'd all say Kyrie is better, yet you all but said you'd want Wall. I guess the key phrase that I shouldn't ignore is that you didn't say it.

 

[LBJordan23]

You're on crack if you think Irving is a top 10 player. I love the kid, but let them earn it before we hand over these accolades to them. The guy hasn't led a team to more than 32 wins in 4 seasons in one of the weakest Eastern conferences in the past several decades! LeBron led the Cavs to 35 wins his rookie season, with a less talented team.

List of players better than him, in no order.

LeBron
Durant
CP3
Westbrook
D12
Harden
Lamarcus Aldridge
Paul George
Melo
Dirk
Duncan (Yes even at this age, the guy is a monster in monster games)
Kawhli Leonard
Tony Parker
Kevin Love
Al Jefferson
Blake Griffin

That's an easy 16. Tony Parker & Duncan are the only "maybes".

Players that are equal/worse/better than Kyrie on any given night: Damian Lillard, Rose, Demarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, Noah, Wall, Beal, Joe Johnson, Bosh

 

[MoFlo]

Again though, literally nobody is saying Kyrie is a Top 10 player....

 

[KI4MVP]

You're on crack if you think Irving is a top 10 player. I love the kid, but let them earn it before we hand over these accolades to them. The guy hasn't led a team to more than 32 wins in 4 seasons in one of the weakest Eastern conferences in the past several decades! LeBron led the Cavs to 35 wins his rookie season, with a less talented team.

List of players better than him, in no order.

LeBron
Durant
CP3
Westbrook
D12
Harden
Lamarcus Aldridge
Paul George
Melo
Dirk
Duncan (Yes even at this age, the guy is a monster in monster games)
Kawhli Leonard
Tony Parker
Kevin Love
Al Jefferson
Blake Griffin

That's an easy 16. Tony Parker & Duncan are the only "maybes".

Players that are equal/worse/better than Kyrie on any given night: Damian Lillard, Rose, Demarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, Noah, Wall, Beal, Joe Johnson, Bosh

Harden is overrated. I'd take kyrie over him any day.

 

[Chris]

Wasnt he ranked top ten by espn last year? What was the reaction in here to that? I bet it wasnt "no he isnt"

 

[LBJordan23]

Again though, literally nobody is saying Kyrie is a Top 10 player....

Not from what I'm reading. I'm seeing people ranking Kyrie 6th and 7th, which is insane. This is coming from a Kyrie fan, but i'm a realist.

To continue my "keeping it real" streak, I would NOT touch John Wall with a stick. Dude is going on his 4th to 5th season and isn't capable of making an outside shot to save his mom's life. Take away John Wall's freakish speed and athleticism, he would be nothing more than a mentally challenged bum, with no shot, no defense, low bball IQ, lack of leadership, lack of heart/killer instinct, and plays basketball with a sense of entitlement.

At least Kyrie Irving plays bball with a sense of humility. Because of that, I definitely feel that he'll get to the Top 10 level way before John Wall ever will.

I would take both, Bradley Beal and Nene, above John Wall if I was asked who the best players are on that team.

 

[LBJordan23]

Harden is overrated. I'd take kyrie over him any day.

I do agree that Harden is overrated, but we aren't talking about "if we had to draft a player to start a franchise" ranking. We are talking about pure present rankings based on current pure ability, not future potential. The biggest knock on Harden is his inability to play decent defense, but that can also be said about Kyrie.

In terms of offensive ability and being able to carry a team to the playoffs, Harden is much ahead. Put Harden on last year's Cavs, and they would, at the very least get the 7th-8th seed. Harden/Deng/Verajao/Waitiers...that's playoffs.

 

[KI4MVP]

I do agree that Harden is overrated, but we aren't talking about "if we had to draft a player to start a franchise" ranking. We are talking about pure present rankings based on current pure ability, not future potential. The biggest knock on Harden is his inability to play decent defense, but that can also be said about Kyrie.

In terms of offensive ability and being able to carry a team to the playoffs, Harden is much ahead. Put Harden on last year's Cavs, and they would, at the very least get the 7th-8th seed. Harden/Deng/Verajao/Waitiers...that's playoffs.

Hardens defense makes Kyrie look like an all nba defender. And why are you talking a bout Harden with Deng. the cavs had a playoff record with Kyrie and Deng. The problem was the hole the Bynum experiments put us in.

And based on what they will do this year I would take Kyrie over Harden.

 

[LBJordan23]

Hardens defense makes Kyrie look like an all nba defender. And why are you talking a bout Harden with Deng. the cavs had a playoff record with Kyrie and Deng. The problem was the hole the Bynum experiments put us in.

I'm telling you that, as much as I think Harden is overrated and despise him in every way, I would bet my mortgage on him being able to carry last year's Cavs team to the Eastern Conference playoffs, possibly a 5-6th seed. Bynum or not. Harden attacks the defense relentlessly and puts opposing bigs in foul trouble. His efficiency rating is still 11th in the league last year. Also top 4 in offensive win-shares.

As much as I love Kyrie, his < than 32 wins in the past 4 seasons is pathetic. I think playing with LeBron will help both, Kyrie and Love significantly though. LeBron will yell and scream and ask them to do more on both ends of the court. LeBron will expect them to play to win, not to one-up the other guy guarding them. Kyrie wasn't even top 20 in win-shares.

 

[CosmoKramer]

First of all I said I would be tempted to take Wall, second of all insulting people just makes you look like a fool.

Believe it or not Irving was a disaster last year and Wall led his team to the playoffs. Draw your own conclusions.

Now I guess this list is for this coming year which makes zero sense to me so I won't even go there. But as of right now? Its highly debateable.

Can you stop acting like Kyrie was anywhere near as terrible last year as you're making him to be? It's gotten to the point of trolling with how hard a stance you've taken that he's some of bad player. What are you trying to prove, that Cavs fans overrate how good Kyrie Irving is? They should, he's got the potential to be one of the franchise's greatest players and a future HOFer. Have you really been watching these past few years not been impressed with his talent? It's not hyperbole to call him one of the top-15 talents in the entire NBA.

Yes he was bad defensively last year, but elite point guards like Tony Parker and Steve Nash have also been subpar defenders for years- doesn't change the fact they're all great offensive players. Kyrie was the fourth highest scoring guard in the entire league last year- only behind other All-Stars like Steph Curry, James Harden, and DeMar DeRozan. Why does that not get any credit?