Farewell Tyler White Diamonds Zeller

[germancav]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

If we took Zeller because he is a nice fit with TT then Im seriously going to throw up... TT/Zeller are going to take us nowhere. Sullinger/2013 Center could take us far with Kyrie and Waiters at PG/SG... What is the point of having a PF/C duo that is well balanced when they dont have the talent to be good enough to take us anywhere?

 

[KingDelonte13]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Zeller will flourish as a cavalier. He's no dummy or lazy-ass like Hollins and Erden. With Z, Andy, and Byron in the mix plus an elite point guard, Zeller should really excel in the middle. He also happens to be the best finisher among big men in transition in the NCAA.

Although i'm in the keep Andy camp, the addition of Zeller will make it easier to part with him at the trade deadline. And I scoff at the people that would have rather had sully. Take of the homer glasses. We don't need a incoming rookie that needs back surgery.

 

[Phills14]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

I love the Zeller fit. He will work great as the big man in the high post, which is a staple of the Princeton offense. His form is very good so even though he didn't show it much at UNC, I think he will be able to pull the center out and knock down a few shots. This in turn will give Thompson and Varejao the ability to create problems on the offensive rebounding side of things as there will be less big men to deal with.

The fact that he can get out on the break from the C or PF spot will be an enormous plus give we have a lot of great transition guys (Irving, Thompson, Waiters )

I don't see him as an allstar, that's for sure but I see him as a very productive and key piece to our team. I see him as a great fit and absolutely I can see a combo of Thompson and Zeller being the big man rotation on a championship caliber team. MYoung, I don't get your comments about that at all. I think Zeller is a great compliment to Thompson's game because their skills are different in that Zeller is a much more offensive polished player and his defense will be lacking while Thompson will grow to be the opposite.

 

[KU_216]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Think Zeller compliments Thompson's game very well. Excited to see these two grow with each other.

 

[Phills14]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

If we took Zeller because he is a nice fit with TT then Im seriously going to throw up... TT/Zeller are going to take us nowhere. Sullinger/2013 Center could take us far with Kyrie and Waiters at PG/SG... What is the point of having a PF/C duo that is well balanced when they dont have the talent to be good enough to take us anywhere?

Sullinger is a rotational big man in the NBA. He will be best to play 20 minutes a game as a key reserve. Asking him to be a starting level PF is difficult because he won't be able to guard ANYBODY and his lack of athletic ability, length and height will cause him to struggle to get his own shot. Zeller over Sully is a no brainer IMO.

The price was right for Zeller- the 2nd rounders would have been nice to have but there talent at 33 & 34 was unpredicable with a lot of risk/reward. I like the fact we got what appears to be a sure thing for what he is.

 

[Chris]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Here's the problem with Tyler Zeller. He's the kind of guy you get when you have a big time PF. A Bosh, Duncan, Griffin, Garnett, etc. The Cavaliers have Tristan Thompson whom no amount of fanboy wishing can turn into Karl Malone.

I was asked here over a month ago about Zeller and I didnt think he was a good enough prospect. Is Zeller a bum? No. Is he the answer i.e good enough in the long term when you factor in Thompson? No. You can talk about fit all you want. Hell, people made the case that Spencer Hawes fit. Im talking about the larger picture and the grand scheme.

When you look at the talent level of teams that win titles and viably compete for them the Cavaliers are still roughly in the same place. You have Irving, now 2 complimentary role playing big men and they're hoping Dion Waters is either special or really damn multi-time All Star good (with that Im Wait-and-See).

Chris Grant still has a lot of work to do.

Could not agree more. This is exactly what I think.

The NBA is built on star power.

Your ability to know the developmental arch of two guys who have combined to play less than 60 NBA games is impressive.

They aren't going to be stars. Please. Sometimes, we know these things about players even after limited amounts of games, or even when they are still college prospects. If you are putting money down on TT or Zeller being a consistent All Star, you are going to win a shit load of money if one of them does in fact become one.

Like they said on WKNR last night, after this draft the team still has .... one player I'm really stoked about going forward. We got him last year.

 

[Jezzar]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

If we took Zeller because he is a nice fit with TT then Im seriously going to throw up... TT/Zeller are going to take us nowhere. Sullinger/2013 Center could take us far with Kyrie and Waiters at PG/SG... What is the point of having a PF/C duo that is well balanced when they dont have the talent to be good enough to take us anywhere?

Drop the Sully love affair.

If Sully is as good as you are advertising, we would be barely in lottery next season. And I'm pretty sure there will be no centers at that point that would offset Sullinger's lack of size, athleticism and lack of defense.

Your point is banking on the very slight chance that we would end up with someone like Noel and that is not happening.

And it is absolutely important to have bigs that are well suited for each other, unless you have your own big 3. Just to name some, Bynum-Gasol, Big Ben-Rasheed, Perkins-Garnett. You can see that all of those duos feature a bruiser/defensive stalwart with a more skilled player who can create. Grant is banking that TT-Zeller is our version of that. Whether that pans out or not, it is certainly a notion that worked before and is going to work in the future.

 

[MYoung23]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Your ability to know the developmental arch of two guys who have combined to play less than 60 NBA games is impressive.

Oh my bad. SUPERSTARS!!! WOOOOO!!!!!

 

[JS33]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Varejao is not going to be of any importance once the Cavs are good again. Injuries/Age wont allow him to be...

Sullinger is already better then Zeller, plus he is 2 years younger... And if Sullinger´s back turns out to be ok he is going to be a lot better then TT aswell. What I would have liked to see is getting Sullinger and pair him with one of the great Centers of the 2013 Draft class. Then play Kyrie-Waiters-Gee-Sullinger-2013 Center (ie Noel)

Now we are going to be stuck in mediocrity unless Waiters turns out to be D-Wade/Westbrook. I dont have a problem with Waiters, that pick is OK with me but trading 3 picks for a 22 years old Center that is simply not having the potential to become a true force at his position while ignoring Sullinger is simply a terrible move for me.

A PF/C combination of TT and Zeller is the best thing if you want to become a average team that is fighting for the playoffs...

What great SF´s are there in the 2013 Draft Class?

If we are lucky we get the chance to pick one of the great centers like Noel or Adams or we could get lucky and land Shabazz Muhammad who is a SG. Then we have either wasted the pick on Waiters or the pick on Zeller.

I'm curious what makes you so high on Jared Sullinger... I've watched probably 90% of his minutes at OSU, and I disagree that he will be as good as or better than Tyler Zeller. He can't handle lengthy defenders. The last pick in the draft, Sacre (I think) from Gonzaga gave him FITS by simply standing still with his hands up. Sully will bully guys in the post as long as they aren't physical with him or overly long.

He definitely worked on his spot up shooting between his freshman and soph seasons because he realized he wasn't going to be able to do much with only his post up game. In a lineup with Kyrie, Waiters, Gee, Varejao/TT, you want another guy that can move and get down the court. Sullinger can not. He can not get back on defense, and he is very injury prone.

I wish him the best of luck in Boston, but I don't see it.

 

[MYoung23]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

I love the Zeller fit. He will work great as the big man in the high post, which is a staple of the Princeton offense. His form is very good so even though he didn't show it much at UNC, I think he will be able to pull the center out and knock down a few shots. This in turn will give Thompson and Varejao the ability to create problems on the offensive rebounding side of things as there will be less big men to deal with.

The fact that he can get out on the break from the C or PF spot will be an enormous plus give we have a lot of great transition guys (Irving, Thompson, Waiters )

I don't see him as an allstar, that's for sure but I see him as a very productive and key piece to our team. I see him as a great fit and absolutely I can see a combo of Thompson and Zeller being the big man rotation on a championship caliber team. MYoung, I don't get your comments about that at all. I think Zeller is a great compliment to Thompson's game because their skills are different in that Zeller is a much more offensive polished player and his defense will be lacking while Thompson will grow to be the opposite.

Nobody said they couldnt be role players. I dont think they are "core players" in the sense of a championship caliber teams best players. Could they be the 4th, 5th or 6th best guys? Sure. It has less to do with fit that how good these guys will be.

Essentially, the Cavaliers are going to need another big time player and that's if Waiters pans out a high level.

 

[MoFlo]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Here's the problem with Tyler Zeller. He's the kind of guy you get when you have a big time PF. A Bosh, Duncan, Griffin, Garnett, etc. The Cavaliers have Tristan Thompson whom no amount of fanboy wishing can turn into Karl Malone.

I was asked here over a month ago about Zeller and I didnt think he was a good enough prospect. Is Zeller a bum? No. Is he the answer i.e good enough in the long term when you factor in Thompson? No. You can talk about fit all you want. Hell, people made the case that Spencer Hawes fit. Im talking about the larger picture and the grand scheme.

When you look at the talent level of teams that win titles and viably compete for them the Cavaliers are still roughly in the same place. You have Irving, now 2 complimentary role playing big men and they're hoping Dion Waters is either special or really damn multi-time All Star good (with that Im Wait-and-See).

Chris Grant still has a lot of work to do.

It's not a matter if Zeller is a franchise center.

What franchise player did you expect to get at 24?

 

[Noonan]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

Nobody said they couldnt be role players. I dont think they are "core players" in the sense of a championship caliber teams best players. Could they be the 4th, 5th or 6th best guys? Sure. It has less to do with fit that how good these guys will be.

But you're ignoring that with young players, fit often is a strong ingredient in eventually determining how good a player they will be. There's a good chance TT's ceiling would have been lowered considerably if the Cavs drafted a similar player (Drummond, Robinson) who operated in the same space and forced TT to spend more time on the bench. But now that TT has a 5 who will pull bigs from the rim, he will have more space to operate and hopefully that will lead to further development.

By drafting Zeller the Cavs are protecting their investment in TT, while also showing there is a larger plan in place. Lots of bad NBA teams don't do that and instead simply acquire athletes who don't necessarily fit the system or the coach.

 

[TrueCavsFan2]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

You understand that stretch bigs that are 7 footers and athletic as Zeller is rare, not to mention his shooting. He's a bit less athletic that Drummond (duhh) but a much more polished offensive game. Great fit for our team and you CAN'T blame Grant because he and nobody else would have guessed PJ3 would go to OKC or that Quincy Miller would have gone 38. He tried to fix it and tried to get another second rounder. But Zeller was supposed to go 8-12 so I'll take him. Better than the players the Mavs drafted.

 

[gregdawg]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

If we took Zeller because he is a nice fit with TT then Im seriously going to throw up... TT/Zeller are going to take us nowhere. Sullinger/2013 Center could take us far with Kyrie and Waiters at PG/SG... What is the point of having a PF/C duo that is well balanced when they dont have the talent to be good enough to take us anywhere?

it's a bit early to be jumping to this conclusion.

 

[Kouki]

Re: 17th Pick - Tyler Zeller

So now that we didn't draft hgh ceiling players, it's more about drafting players that fit?

Talent wins in the NBA, not fit. Talent precedes fit. Good talent will normally fit together regardless, and a good coach will make good talent work regardless of what "system" he usually likes to work with.