Farewell Tyler White Diamonds Zeller

[Randolphkeys]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

Zeller = Poor man's Love? I don't think that's accurate at all, but boy would I love to see him included in a trade for Love.

Again, remembering how overmatched Love looked as a rookie four years ago can be hard to recollect. As Douglar mentioned he was also younger as a rookie, but still had an NBA vet as a father. Love was knocked as a finished product going into the 2008 draft with a low ceiling. Zeller had the same knock. I'm not saying Zeller is a poor man's Kevin Love, I said learning to be a poor man's Kevin Love should be Zeller' s goal.

 

[kosis]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

Yeah if you can't pick 5 rookies better than Zeller this year you need to have your voting privileges revoked.

 

[EdMonix11]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

Yeah if you can't pick 5 rookies better than Zeller this year you need to have your voting privileges revoked.

....or it could be we've been a little too harsh on a developing big man

 

[Rich]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

....or it could be we've been a little too harsh on a developing big man

He's still well outside one of the five best rookies

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

....or it could be we've been a little too harsh on a developing big man

He's 23 years old.

At that age you have no business looking as overmatched as he often did physically.

Clearly he avoided a weight room for 4 years at NC, and his rookie year with the Cavs.

At what point will consider him to be what he is, rather than passing his refusal to get tougher/stronger off on his "developing"?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

He's 23 years old.

At that age you have no business looking as overmatched as he often did physically.

Clearly he avoided a weight room for 4 years at NC, and his rookie year with the Cavs.

At what point will consider him to be what he is, rather than passing his refusal to get tougher/stronger off on his "developing"?

The last decade of big man development completely renders your point moot. A center, regardless of age, has not entered the NBA from college a finished product since short shorts went out of style.

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

The last decade of big man development completely renders your point moot. A center, regardless of age, has not entered the NBA from college a finished product since short shorts went out of style.

Very few NBA centers are as soft and physically undeveloped as he is at the age of 23.

That, and not experience, is at the root of all of his basketball problems.

He is in a little boys body trying to play a mans game without be willing to put in the time/effort to develop a man's body.

 

[Nathan S]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

Very few NBA centers are as soft and physically undeveloped as he is at the age of 23.

That, and not experience, is at the root of all of his basketball problems.

He is in a little boys body trying to play a mans game without be willing to put in the time/effort to develop a man's body.

I think you may be overstating your case...at the combine, Zeller weighed in at 247lbs with 6.4% bf and managed 16 reps on the bench press. Those are all solid numbers. The bigger issues are that he's not used to the physicality of the NBA game and that he has the standing reach of small forward, making it extremely difficult for him to contest shots in the post.

 

[EdMonix11]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

He's 23 years old.

At that age you have no business looking as overmatched as he often did physically.

Clearly he avoided a weight room for 4 years at NC, and his rookie year with the Cavs.

At what point will consider him to be what he is, rather than passing his refusal to get tougher/stronger off on his "developing"?

Birdy, this doesn't surprise me because you're the most negative person on this board.

I know you believe that every rookie, regardless of age, is a finished product and there's no such thing as development. I also know that you believe that if you're not a superstar during your rookie year, then you are a loser (Uncle Ruslan).

I only mentioned the fact that we might be too hard on the kid because apparently, some people in the NBA, who know more about basketball than everyone else on this board combined, saw something in him that they thought was worthy of the All-Rookie team. He was a mid-first round pick and finished on the All-Rookie team ahead of many lottery picks. I think that's great value.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Re: Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

Birdy, this doesn't surprise me because you're the most negative person on this board.

I know you believe that every rookie, regardless of age, is a finished product and there's no such thing as development. I also know that you believe that if you're not a superstar during your rookie year, then you are a loser (Uncle Ruslan).

I only mentioned the fact that we might be too hard on the kid because apparently, some people in the NBA, who know more about basketball than everyone else on this board combined, saw something in him that they thought was worthy of the All-Rookie team. He was a mid-first round pick and finished on the All-Rookie team ahead of many lottery picks. I think that's great value.

We can discuss Tyler Zeller without attacking the way we post as fans. I'm a more positive guy when I talk Cavaliers compared to the Browns, for example. It's just how I read the lay of the land. Let's keep the focus on the player, not the poster.

That said, I've said the same thing about Zeller since the night of the draft: He was a great value at #17 because even if his ceiling is a third big, getting an offensively talented third big mid-round is a great value. I see things in Zeller that stood in the way of his success. The biggest one is that after he had his nose broken by DeAndre Jordan - and nobody will ever convince me that it wasn't a purposeful message elbow - he didn't approach the game the same way in the paint. That is the #1 thing that needs to change.

 

[Tornicade]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

The coaches said zellers problem was he thinks too much. The reporters overing him and those who didnt also seem to be of the opinion he thinks too much. Zeller admitted that he was thinking instead of doing.

Zeller hasnt had that click when the brain and the game speed are in sync. when he gets there he will be pretty consistent and very effective.

Defensively. well he is a 7 foot center rookie playing on a squad filled with guys with not much more experience than him. That means after Varejaoa went down he didnt have anyone on the court to lean or or cover his mistakes.

Had zeller gone to Dallas I seriously believe he would of been a top 5 rookie.

Right now Zeller looks good in practice but not in games on a consistent leve. it wont stay that way for long.

Defensively all they need from zeller is to box out properly and cut off passing lanes. he doesnt really need to be a shuut down guy.

offensive he needs to work the high post better. be more consistent with his shot and take advantage of his passing ability.

He also runs the floor well. Brown will take advantage of that in the half court aspect.

One concern i have thugh is that although Brown is great at picking a role for a guy and getting him good at that role. he hasnt really shown he will let his guys add to their game and take advantage of it when they do.

 

[AustinCarr]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

The one and done era has really skewed how we view 4 year rookies. Hell, in Embrys time that was pretty much all they drafted. And those guys were given time to learn and develop.

Yes, he needs work. If he didn't he wouldnt have been available at pick 17. Hopefully time in the gym and age will help him fill out some more. One thing is for sure, though: kid needs to learn to punch back

 

[clebron]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

The college game doesn't require the physical play of the nba...regardless of his age, he isn't use to it yet

 

[ice cream man]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

Just because Zeller is better than a lot of his draft class doesn't make him better than we thought. We saw him suck. He still sucks.

 

[Cavatt]

Re: Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

I think he showed he is an NBA player. Would you trade him for a 2nd round pick? I wouldn't. He can at least score the ball which many centers cannot. Maybe he is ou tof the league in 2 years, but i don't really see that.