Here's a fun question to be discussed about 2014. I'd love YOUR take

[Homestar]

We made the Finals with Drew fucking Gooden.

I admire your skepticism, but Grant and coach Scott have my trust with this all-important draft, because I believe they hit on three of their four picks (not sold on Zeller, yet).

Gooden and Z could both shoot jumpers and both had an offensive game. With Thompson and Noel, we would have better D, but much less O.

I think the team defense is also majorly held back by the fact that we are tanking, and rarely play a meaningful game.

In the playoffs, it's almost all about creating half court offense. When the big men don't have a lot to offer, it's puts a lot of pressure on the 1, 2, and 3... even if they are of the best in the game.

 

[Homestar]

Is this a joke? Waiters can be a chucker, but he's nowhere near Jamison in my opinion.

2011-12 Jamison

33.1 MPG
16.1 Shots Attempted
17.2 PPG
40.3 FG%
34.1 3P%

2012-13 Waiters

30.2 MPG
14 Shots Attempted
14.4 PPG
38.0 FG%
32.4 3P%

Jamison 16 shots for 17 points. Waiters 14 shots for 14 points. Jamison with higher shooting %.

 

[BuddyCowley]

The point is – everyone seems to forget that come playoff time, it's all about half-court offense. And even if LeBron and Kyrie are the two best players in the league, surrounding him with two offensively challenged bigs like Thompson and Noel, is absolutely crippling. One garbage man big is fine, but two is not something you can live with in today's NBA.

[video=youtube;xLlQpMpgB14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlQpMpgB14[/video]

I like.

 

[BuddyCowley]

2011-12 Jamison

33.1 MPG
16.1 Shots Attempted
17.2 PPG
40.3 FG%
34.1 3P%

2012-13 Waiters

30.2 MPG
14 Shots Attempted
14.4 PPG
38.0 FG%
32.4 3P%

Jamison 16 shots for 17 points. Waiters 14 shots for 14 points. Jamison with higher shooting %.

Jamison - Old as shit.

Waiters - Young as fuck.

 

[Huber.]

2011-12 Jamison

33.1 MPG
16.1 Shots Attempted
17.2 PPG
40.3 FG%
34.1 3P%

2012-13 Waiters

30.2 MPG
14 Shots Attempted
14.4 PPG
38.0 FG%
32.4 3P%

Jamison 16 shots for 17 points. Waiters 14 shots for 14 points. Jamison with higher shooting %.

Waiters has shot 41.6% this month. over 6% better than November and December. He's improving.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

A chucker isn't only defined by the amount of shots a guy takes.

 

[narbar32]

Holy shitballs.

I just made it through all of the posts in this thread and feel comfortable calling it one of my favorite worst-threads-ever ever.

What a meandering, jumbled mess. This has been the message board equivalent of Mr. Magoo blindly moseying his way through a construction site and somehow keeping it going regardless of the bullshit in his way.

Anyways, this seems about as useful as talking in 2004 about 2006 Eric Williams and Jeff McInnis. As Douglar alluded to earlier, who the eff knows what this team will look like in 2014, even if you want to assume Kyrie will be playing with Lebron.

 

[Toph]

2011-12 Jamison

33.1 MPG
16.1 Shots Attempted
17.2 PPG
40.3 FG%
34.1 3P%

2012-13 Waiters

30.2 MPG
14 Shots Attempted
14.4 PPG
38.0 FG%
32.4 3P%

Jamison 16 shots for 17 points. Waiters 14 shots for 14 points. Jamison with higher shooting %.

Are you really going to be that meticulous about the stats? Waiters is 21. Jamison is 36 (35 in 2011-2012 season). Have you watched all of the games this year and last year? Because I have. And it seems blatantly obvious that Jamison was a hopeless chucker and that Waiters (although he does his fair share of chucking), is a good facilitator when he wants to be. And definitely has potential in that area. Maybe we just have different definitions of what a chucker is. CJ and Antawn are some of the worst I've watched. Dion has shown much improvement in that area over the course of the season, and I think he will continue to do so.

 

[Toph]

A chucker isn't only defined by the amount of shots a guy takes.

Trade Waiters for Jamison. Straight up. No brainer.

 

[STAT]

in game 4 shot attempts:
Westy:32
Durant:19
Harden:10
(they lost that one)
here is his dumb foul at the end of the game where he shot 14 more times than durant and 3 times as many as harden:
[video=youtube_share;120hy5EvIKA]http://youtu.be/120hy5EvIKA[/video]

maybe hardens low shot percentage came from westbrook trying to lebron-himself into victory?
Its also hard to assist when your PG is being a ballhog and chucking shots like CJ Miles

He is a great player but he is not top 10 in the league, MAYBE right now because rondo and d-rose are hurt, but if you include them then no way in hell

I'll guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as we really should not derail this thread any further.

 

[davedugan43]

Gooden and Z could both shoot jumpers and both had an offensive game. With Thompson and Noel, we would have better D, but much less O.

I think the team defense is also majorly held back by the fact that we are tanking, and rarely play a meaningful game.

In the playoffs, it's almost all about creating half court offense. When the big men don't have a lot to offer, it's puts a lot of pressure on the 1, 2, and 3... even if they are of the best in the game.

OKC LOVES to get out and run, and they did it very, very well in the playoffs last year. You need half-court offense to win in the playoffs, but there are some chances to run.

 

[Homestar]

Jeez, you guys are vicious!

No point in arguing about Nerlens now. Lots of NCAA left to be played this year. My primary point is that in order to win a championship, I don't think both your 4 & 5 can have zero offensive game. You can win 50, 55, maybe even 60 games. But in the ECF and the Finals, the game slows down... and it always comes down to those few crucial half court possessions with a couple of minutes left. In those scenarios, I'd prefer two of our guys to not handicap us offensively. It doesn't matter how phenomenal the other two are if they are both double teamed. That's why I'd take Len 100 times over Noel.

I understand that Jamison is about 15 years older than Dion. I hope to God that Dion becomes a more efficient scorer, and I love his ability to create and facilitate. I think he is absolutely perfect to be our 6th man for that reason.

 

[Mdog1]

I have a problem with any potential 2014 scenarios that involve #6. I know Gilbert would be willing to hit 100 million in salary (including tax), but even a billionaire would have to bat a few eyelashes at 120 or more IF Kyrie gets the max, Tristan gets 10 million +, LeBron gets 20 million, Dion gets his 10 million, and the 2013 pick gets his 10 million. We're talking what 60 million or more for those 5 players (potentially). That's a ton of money to lock up in an admittedly great core, and if this was 2007 free agency we were talking about I would have absolutely no doubts in my mind Gilbert would foot the bill for it, but like the Thunder, and Grizzlies found out, you can't have too many top tier money makers on the same team under this new punitive system.

 

[RTrees]

I was getting tired of watching LeBron James make every play, and 10 other guys' careers hang in the balance. I came out against games like that Knicks game where it was basically him playing nintendo while the team watched and he went off for I don't know/care how many. That's not how you prepare a team for the playoffs.

His game has matured since, but not full time. I really like the energy we play with on our best nights, the ball does move find guys more, every guy getting touches, involved, and then contributing. Seeing what Andy can do with other talented players, for instance, is one of the best things about seeing him on this team without LeBron.

Having LeBron does not make winning a sure thing by the way. It was team ball from a bunch of semi washed up vets (and recently injured Rondo) that almost took LeBron out last year, what was it game 7, tied after 3 quarters? The Heat didn't have a ton of comp last year with all the injuries to other teams clearing some of the way. They were the best team, and earned their ring, but even the Cavs of the future may be a stronger team than the 2011-12 Heat. It feels like you can get through the playoffs if you're more versatile, and an entire team's success doesn't hinge on one guy's elbow, for instance.

I think Kyrie controls tempo better than LeBron ever did, and he's arguable better when the game is on the line.

If LeBron wants to come here in free agency, I'm sure we'll find a spot for him. But I might enjoy the way this team plays more if we go some other route.

There are a million ways to skin a cat. 65 NBA Championships won so far. I haven't seen all of them, but the one with LeBron James for me wasn't the best one. I liked the Lakers C's battles in the 80's, the Bad Boys, the Rockets. These teams all won more than one ring playing together as a team. I think the players enjoy it more (they actually get to play) and play better for the team.

Don't underestimate the demoralizing affect of one guy's selfishness on the rest of a team. We've watched what happens to the ultra talented Lakers while Kobe shoots 30 shots per game. Those other guys become obsolete. Just don't want to risk that happening here even for one regular season game. The positive team feeling of our Cavs now is developing into part of our identity on the court. These guys play for each other and the love of the game. I hope we can, Grant can, continue to find guys that fit that mold going forward.

 

[Jack Brickman]

A chucker isn't only defined by the amount of shots a guy takes.

For example, if Dion and CJ both take 14 shots in a game, I'm willing to bet at least 10 of CJ's shots are terrible, whereas probably only 2 or 3 of Dion's would be at this point. Even if they both shoot the same percentage in that game, CJ is a chucker but Dion is not.