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Hollinger to the Grizzlies Front Office

Discussion in 'Around The NBA' started by howler1313, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. howler1313

    howler1313 NBA Starter

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    Too bad, I'll miss not having Hollinger around, but best of luck to him with the Grizz. Now we won't get a sneak preview of the Cavs draft board a few weeks before the draft!
     
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  2. RchfldCavRaised

    RchfldCavRaised Season of Dreams

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    [​IMG]

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  3. Triumph36

    Triumph36 All-Star

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    and the transition to front offices' focusing more on advanced stats continues..

    good for him.
     
  4. Jack Brickman

    Jack Brickman Preview Team

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    Might have to cancel my ESPN Insider account now. Hollinger's daily articles were one of the main reasons I kept renewing it.
     
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  5. FiveThous

    FiveThous Redeux

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    Good for him, Hollinger was the lone voice of reason on ESPN for me
     
  6. Mdog1

    Mdog1 NBA Starter

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    Well that's good for him, but bad for us. Seems like he was one of the few guys around the NBA that actually made sense, and wasn't just looking for hits by screaming on TV (Skip, SAS).
     
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  7. shoes22

    shoes22 All-Star

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    ESPN lost one of its only intelligent writers today. Sad.
     
  8. Birdy89

    Birdy89 Sixth Man

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    I know some people around here loved him, but the next team that wins an NBA title with that advanced metrics stuff will be the first.

    The NBA is, was and always will be driven by stars, and no amount of data fired into an Excel spread sheet is going to make all that much different in the grand scheme of things.

    Good for him though for being able to parlay that stuff into a good paying job like that though.
     
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  9. RchfldCavRaised

    RchfldCavRaised Season of Dreams

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    His spawn like Daryl Morey tried all the advanced metric/Billy Bean shit for a few years and now he is resigned to doing whatever he can to attract stars, along with having James Harden recruiting more stars throughout the season.

    I hope he doesnt get cute and kill what the Grizzlies have going. They seem to have things going pretty well without his advanced metrics. Jerry West really put them in a position to have a perennial contender for a good decade by knowing what it takes to win and using his wealth of knowledge of the game to put the roster together. Golden State looks good as well.

    From a purist standpoint, his metrics are fun to talk about over coffee or if we were playing the game with basketball cards and dice, but this league is too much about ratings and dollars to ever feature anything other than the best talent on the biggest stages.
     
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  10. Funny Man Rocco

    Funny Man Rocco Sixth Man

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    I think they will be fine as long his advanced metrics are just used as another tool, not something to completely base their decisions off of.
     
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  11. 7foot3

    7foot3 Situational Stopper

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    I don't think any stat guy would disagree with you that the game is driven by stars. But building a roster isn't as simple as acquiring a star. Understanding exactly how valuable your star is, and the guys around then, and how they fit together are incredibly important, and the measures are out there for the people who are actually willing to learn. Anyone who describes what Hollinger does as playing the game with cards and dice is clueless. Hollinger understands better than anyone what kind of probabilities he's working with. The numbers that get presented in ESPN articles to the common man are gross oversimplifications of what he's actually trying to figure out.
     
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  12. Tornicade

    Tornicade High five!

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    The Celtics I believe won a Championship with one of the premiere advanced metric men in the business.
    Dallas used alot of statistical analysis in developing their game plan for the heat. I believe they won a championship. Dallas went a step further than the Celtics and put the guy on their bench as a coach.
    Miami has Bob Chaikin who used to run his own database.

    NBA.com: In general, what role do statistics play in how you've coached the Heat?
    Erik Spoelstra: I look at it to evaluate our team, to compare us to other teams, particularly defensively, where we stack up against the best. I also use it to make points to the team about things we need to improve. I use it also for scouting, when we're trying to come up with a game plan for the opponent.
    More than anything, I use stats to either substantiate some hunches we have as a staff or to make us think more and to come up with more questions.
    NBA.com: What statistical tools do you use?
    E.S.: We have a proprietary statistical database that we've had since I was an assistant coach. We developed it with our personal software writer for stats. He's based out of L.A. and his name is Shmuel Einstein.
    When Pat [Riley] wanted to turn the corner statistically 10-plus years ago, he put me in charge of it with a blank canvas. So I figured he would be a good guy to hire since his name was Einstein.


    You guys are living in the eighties and early nineties. statistical analysis has been a factor in almost every championship game going back to Pat riley.

    plus minus is a very effective tool in identifying issues when put in conjuction with other information.

    to say or believe that statistical analysis has not had a profound impact on championships or the NBA in General is very Naive




    [h=4]
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  13. Birdy89

    Birdy89 Sixth Man

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    Athletes aren't numerical probabilities you can put together to build a perfect team.

    The old fashioned 'eye test" is orders of magnitude more important about telling you whether guys will fit together than anything a spread sheet can pump out.

    People who know the game and evaluate talent for a living can look at a player and know whether he is a fit or not. No amount of numerical manipulation will ever persuade you into taking or not taking a guy you either think sucks or can really play.

    Those metrics can't account for the intangibles of a guy who knows how to do the right thing at the right moment, and it is that kind of stuff that is the difference between winning a title and being on the treadmill.
     
  14. wuck

    wuck Hustling on the inside Staff Member

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    Completely agree, Tornicade. Memphis is not being at all revolutionary. They are just catching up with what the rest of the league (bad teams and good teams) has been doing for many years.

    In some cases, like Morey, you have a stats guy pretty much running things. In other cases, they are on staff, working in conjunction with old-school scouts.
     
  15. MalTalm

    MalTalm Formerly known as Talm

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    That's the classic counter argument, and its wrong. Baseball and football has adapted a long time ago. It's less apparent in the NBA because the truly elite usually stand out. But advanced metrics is what helps teams get contributors in the middle and tail end of the draft. Statistics, when used properly, are an incredibly powerful tool in all facets of life.
     
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  16. Free Agency God

    Free Agency God Birthing All-Stars

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    I feel like all the metrics haters are like the guys around the table doubting Brad Pitt's player prospects to sign for the upcoming seasn. Just a bunch of old-school guys who think they know it all and have seen it all, so they can't learn anything new. :chuckles:

    [​IMG]

    RchfldCavRaised is the one behind the black guy. Birdy is the guy in the back with the blue jacked and glasses. :chuckles:

    I really don't get all the hate for metrics though. I feel like some people are offended by them and shun them because it wasn't around when they grew up and that it somehow invalidates what they were taught and have lived out, thus threatening their knowledge and experience. I don't think that advanced metrics have been perfected, but they're improving in their prediction rates more and more every year, coming closer to really being able to show value and flaws in players that no one else can see. Metrics are great for telling things how they are. But there certainly are limitations to how much metrics can be beneficial. Advanced metrics cannot teach a player how to do a hook shot, play defense, read the passing lanes, etc. This is where old-school experience comes in. Advanced metrics backing up the teachings of experience is going to be more powerful than arrogantly based experience alone. Guys need to embrace advanced metrics as a powerful tool for making sense of players and the game of basketball.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  17. Obawan12

    Obawan12 Team Statistician

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    Even if you take away his statistics, i would still take john hollinger's subjective analysis of players/teams over 99.9% of this board. The guy watches 100's of basketball games a year. He says he tries to see every team in person at least once. Just because he uses statistics heavily doesn't mean he doesn't understand all the other non-statistical aspects of the game. The guy knows his fucking shit.

    As a stats guy who read his articles on a daily basis for the past 4 to 5 years, it sucks that he's done writing, but i'm happy for him and hope he finds success.
     
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  18. shoes22

    shoes22 All-Star

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    Isn't Hollinger the guy who invented PER? He's already made a significant and permanent contribution to basketball statistics and culture.
     
  19. Walter White

    Walter White All-Star

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    This guy is like the only opinion I respect when it comes to NBA stuff. Literally.
     
  20. Free Agency God

    Free Agency God Birthing All-Stars

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    Windy? :O
     

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