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Houston Deputy Murdered while pumping gas

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Yeah, man. This is how it starts. First, you think you're not out of control on a message board. Then, you're telling people they're making buckwheat jokes or quoting Ann Coulter.

Just calling it how I see it..

I'll comment on your posts later. They're blowing my brain up for now trying to grasp the maths.

I know right? You'd think you could do away with all of the study of statistics with just basic arithmetic, right? Shame it doesn't work that way.
 
I know right? You'd think you could do away with all of the study of statistics with just basic arithmetic, right? Shame it doesn't work that way.

I'm not sure.

I still think I'll be able to prove you wrong though.
 
The way the mind works is impossible to map out on paper, and is extremely difficult to track using numbers of any kind, but I'm very confident just based on intuition that I understand how people's minds work that commit crimes, particularly violent ones.

This.

"There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics"
 
In all seriousness, I believe I have a freakishly strong grasp on the way the human mind works. I have no way to prove this to you guys, because I didn't choose to study it at any point and have no credentials to offer.

There are also no numbers that correllate with the way the human mind reacts to (for example) bullying, physical abuse, neglect, abandonment, instability, etc. You can't chart fear, self-esteem, etc

But I feel comfortable saying that all of these things are more predictive of crime than behavior than any numbers we can all show each other.

When I say abandonment, I'm referring to men impregnating women and not being present in their childrens lives.

When children are abandoned and don't have a father figure, it impacts their self worth and makes them susceptible to the influence of other males who may already have gone down the wrong path. Bottom line...bad things happen when kids are abandoned or neglected.

Not sure how to prove that on paper.
 
Yeah, man. This is how it starts. First, you think you're not out of control on a message board. Then, you're telling people they're making buckwheat jokes or quoting Ann Coulter.

I'll comment on your posts later. They're blowing my brain up for now trying to grasp the maths.

While I respect that statistics are the easiest thing to turn to when it comes to crime and reflection of human behavior en masse, I've just never been willing to write off my gut instinct when it comes to the way the human mind works. Particularly as it reacts to parenting and authority.

The way the mind works is impossible to map out on paper, and is extremely difficult to track using numbers of any kind, but I'm very confident just based on intuition that I understand how people's minds work that commit crimes, particularly violent ones.

There is no way for me to prove that to you, however. Not sure that's even worth discussing?

Do you think white people are held accountable for crimes as often as black people? From personal experience I would say no. I have gotten out of things i shouldn't have.

This has been shown repeatedly that black people get harsher sentences for the same crime.
 
In all seriousness, I believe I have a freakishly strong grasp on the way the human mind works. I have no way to prove this to you guys, because I didn't choose to study it at any point and have no credentials to offer.

There are also no numbers that correllate with the way the human mind reacts to (for example) bullying, physical abuse, neglect, abandonment, instability, etc. You can't chart fear, self-esteem, etc

But I feel comfortable saying that all of these things are more predictive of crime than behavior than any numbers we can all show each other.

When I say abandonment, I'm referring to men impregnating women and not being present in their childrens lives.

When children are abandoned and don't have a father figure, it impacts their self worth and makes them susceptible to the influence of other males who may already have gone down the wrong path. Bottom line...bad things happen when kids are abandoned or neglected.

Not sure how to prove that on paper.

Jigo Knows Abanonment
 
Make what you will out of that, but it is clear to me that, at least for some, there is indeed a very different relationship between law enforcement. It isn't limited to blacks but ANY group the Power Trip or Us vs. Them cops find undesirable whether it be scuzzy stoners (my burn-out friends were harassed non-stop in high school) or homosexuals. Now, when people say that certain folks, like us suburban white guys, simply can't understand certain aspects of their interaction with the law, it isn't meant to be an insult but a fact. It doesn't make us bad, but it should provoke some thought.

I just appreciate how you somehow managed to throw homosexuals into the mix. Yes, the cops harbor so much disdain towards blacks, homosexuals, and whatever minority group out there that you can think of, curse you cops! Minorities of the world unite! Excelsior!
 
This is a good article that clearly explains about the reaction to black lives matter

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/02/bla...er/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Earlier this week, just before bed, an old high school debate teammate, a white man that I once loved affectionately as a younger brother, posted on my Facebook wall, “Do you have sympathy on police officers who are killed on duty?” Though we have been Facebook friends for a number of years, it has also been literal years since our last significant interaction via the site. This was a curious question that seemed forthrightly accusatory in its tone.



Driven, I suspect, by the killing of Texas Deputy Darren Goforth last Friday, my old friend’s question says much to me about the quotidian ways that otherwise well-meaning white people misunderstand racial discourse in this country. Like many Americans, I watched horrified last week as news unfolded of Vester Lee Flanagan’s cold-blooded execution of a newscaster and a cameraman in Virginia. Then, just two short days later, the news that Shannon J. Miles, a Black man with a previously documented history of mental illness, had executed Deputy Goforth made my heart stop.

These killings of white people are tragic and inexcusable. That should be said without equivocation. But after I affirmed this same fact to my old friend, I asked him, “What would make you think I think otherwise?” That same night on CNN, I watched Dr. Marc Lamont Hill debate the Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke, also an African American man. The chief was there to affirm remarks made by Harris County Sheriff Ron Hickman about how “anti-cop” rhetoric from the Black Lives Matter Movement had led to the killing of Deputy Goforth. Sheriff Clarke pointed to the killing of Officers Liu and Ramos in New York last year and the killing of Deputy Goforth, proclaiming it a “pattern.”

How is it that two mentally ill Black men targeting police officers constitutes a pattern, but the killing of Walter Scott, the killing of Samuel Dubose, and the killing of Jonathan Ferrell, all by police while they were clearly unarmed and committing no crimes, add up to a collection of unrelated, isolated incidents? How is it that the random acts of two mentally unstable Black men who had no formal or informal relationship with the Black Lives Matter movement constitute a trend, but the two dozen police killings of unarmed Black citizens again remain a collection of unfortunate but isolated incidents?

In the case of both Samuel Dubose and Walter Scott, we have police officers on tape killing Black men in cold blood, and then we have evidence of those officers and their colleagues blatantly lying about what occurred. This is also true of Christian Taylor in Texas. This is also true in the recent case of two police officers who were fired after video evidence proved they concocted an entire story about anti-cop rhetoric to get out of doing their jobs. If two points make a line, then how many incidents of police caught lying in cases that involve the lethal use of force do we need in order to acknowledge that there’s a pattern?

Let me be clearer. By “we” I don’t mean me. I mean the “We” that was originally included in “we the people.” How many incidents will constitute a pattern for them?

To be clear, the Black Lives Matter Movement is not an anti-cop movement. It is a movement that vigorously and voraciously opposes the overpolicing of Black communities and the state-sanctioned killing of unarmed Black people (and, yes, all people) by the police. It is a movement that insists on holding police accountable for their violence and that will hold police to a higher standard precisely because the state gives police the right to use lethal force. With more power comes more responsibility.

But here’s the thing: White people know this. Conservative Black people who insist on speaking about the rule of law and the issue of Black-on-Black crime know this. This is basic. They know that these young people don’t want to kill cops. They want the cops to stop killing them. That was as true in 1988 when NWA released their hit song, “Fuck Tha Police,” and it remains true today, as protestors blast rapper Boosie’s similarly titled song at protests. Yet, the release of “Straight Outta Compton” this summer has led to increased police presence in movie theaters, even as we have watched the trial of white male Aurora movie shooter James Holmes.

How deeply emotional must one be to hear a group sing a song that is a critique of the police terrorizing communities and hear the song to be saying that these same communities want to terrorize police? How deeply emotional must one be to deliberately disregard the unspoken “too” at the end of every proclamation that “Black lives matter”? We are all entitled to our feelings, no matter how fucked up and misguided they are. But white people’s feelings become facts in a system of white supremacy and these “facts” are used to guide social policy.
 
Do you think white people are held accountable for crimes as often as black people? From personal experience I would say no. I have gotten out of things i shouldn't have.

This has been shown repeatedly that black people get harsher sentences for the same crime.

I don't know what it's like to be a black person and the only conversations I've ever had with black people about this subject have been online. Black people largely seem to believe that they get the short end of the stick as compared to white people. I gain nothing by disbelieving them, so I'm always willing to hear the argument out. I also think being a white person has been relatively easy for me, but I've been relatively privileged to a certain extent.

I can say that I have consistently gotten out of speeding tickets and I believe it's largely because I've been compliant and didn't test the officer's authority or make them feel unsafe. I have no data to prove what would have happened to a black person in the same set of circumstances, looking the same way, committing the same infraction, if they behaved the exact same way I did.

I truly believe a lot of these traffic stops have to do with how the person acts when the cop shows up at their window. But people generally don't like hearing that, because they (understandably) don't trust cops right now.
 
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I just appreciate how you somehow managed to throw homosexuals into the mix. Yes, the cops harbor so much disdain towards blacks, homosexuals, and whatever minority group out there that you can think of, curse you cops! Minorities of the world unite! Excelsior!

I suppose you've never heard of the Stonewall riots that grew out of police harassment?

And I take it you have never lived in the Bible Belt either.

Just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it does not exist.
 
Jigo Knows Abanonment

Joking aside...

My dad died when I was a kid of the same disease that I have and my mother is a borderline sociopath, so while I wouldn't claim I know abandonment in the way that many kids do...I am able to empathize/sympathize with those who have been abandoned. And abandonment, whether real or imagined, affects the mind in very profound ways. Abuse does too. I lucked out in that I was never physically or sexually abused, but I got it pretty bad emotionally. And abuse/neglect/abandonment are the root causes for a lot of negative reactions, and violent crime is tied in very tightly with these things for males. For women, abusive relationships, further abandonment by the fathers of their children and otherwise low self-esteem are probable.

Go talk to the girls at your favorite strip club or listen to the hilarious fuck-ups at your local stand-up comedy joint to learn more. :chuckle:
 
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This is wrong.

Your data points are points scored, minutes played, among thousands of other dependent data points. These represent the observable, empirical data you have.

You perform an operation, for reasons you believe to be sound, on that data to attempt to derive a rate; points per minute.

You then make the logical claim that because more points were scored per minute over a given period, that Jennings scores (again, tense) at a higher rate than Love.

The argument, without qualifiers like (on the Cavs, in 2014-15, when healthy, as the primary option, etc), does not describe reality. I've already explained why this is, but I think you're missing the nuance of the argument.



I'm not fighting a data point. I'm arguing, logically, against illogical assertions based on novice misunderstandings of science; particularly with respect to statistics and sociology.



This is fallacious, and frankly meaningless. It's like saying f=ma describes reality -- it did until it didn't.



First off, I think it's important to understand that data is not always accurate, so with respect, I think your assumption here is a bit naive. Secondly, my argument is expressly against the claims being made, based on said data, and I think I've covered it pretty extensively; and to which I might add, no one has even attempted to make a counterargument.

With respect to your concern, if you read my posts you will see the term non sequitur used more than once. I've described the flaws in the observational data, the methodology of comparative analysis being used (simple division over total populations is an asinine approach), and ultimately the conclusions being drawn from this "data."

What you're doing at the moment is essentially an ad hominem; you've not actually argued against my position, but simply imagined a motive on my part and then discounted my argument on the basis that you think I'm being intellectually disingenuous, which is frankly somewhat offensive.

Just argue the point being made, not the man.

As I've said, with respect to mathematics and physics, I have no problem providing an objective, reasoned and frankly educated opinion on the topics at hand. But, in order to do so, you have to actually read my posts and understand the argument I'm making.

Concisely, a claim is being made: Blacks commit more crimes than any other race.

This argument is not factual and is not a "data point;" it is an attempt at an argument - yet it is fallacious and invalid as it is a non-sequitur; there simply is inadequate information within the premise of the argument to make the claim and the conclusion simply does not follow from any observable data we have available.

As far as where I get off arguing the point, I don't think you actually understand what is being argued.. I am not arguing that Blacks haven't committed more crime than Whites, on average, nationally; I've already said that (again, read my posts). What I've said is that there isn't much usefulness or meaning to that data with respect to the claim that was made (Blacks vs any race), for numerous reasons that I've already outlined. Furthermore, that said data is not in itself predictive (again, tense) when considering other factors such as socioeconomic conditions, racial diversity in a given area, incarceration rates, and recidivism rates.

I think the nuance here is being lost.

I am scratching my head here. You are offended that I have attacked you and your motivations, yet you get off on calling me naive and proceed to tell me I have missed the nuance? That's awesome.

If someone makes a claim that Jennings scoreD more than Love on a PPM basis in the previous season, is that a logical argument or simply an operation performed on the data? Not WHY it is so, but just that claim. Can we agree that it's an observation/operation/data? In fact, observations are what leads us to the "why?" which leads us to things like FGA, health, role, etc.

I am not assuming you are being intellectually disingenuous, just that you are crusading here against nothing.

I see it as:
-Some study somewhere said blacks commit crimes at hire rates, on a crimes/blacks basis, which is some sort of data point. I don't understand how a data point gets you up in arms.
-Now, what is more interesting & important are these critical things, among others:
-who made the study?
-what data did they use and where did they get it?
-other research methods and why they were chosen?
-what conclusions, if any, were drawn from this study?
-what other studies have to say? Where to look next for more answers and new studies.

I just don't think you can argue the validity of a data point or an operation on it. I thought someone was saying as much, and then you got fired up about it. I don't know where anyone was drawing any conclusions or making any arguments on the data.

If you are arguing something and feel that I haven't read it, or can't "comprehend" it, or maybe I am just too naive to get it, then now you are just being condescending. You twisted someone's assertion and fought against the implications that someone somewhere had made, and now I don't understand? Well I guess I'm not on your level.

You are being annoying, yet you will somehow conclude that you aren't being annoying and are annoyed. Nobody has time for this shit. I can't believe I got sucked in. Fuck.
 
Gour makes a living on this board making assertions that are not backed up by data but when he's shown actual statistical data that doesn't meet his agenda he brushes it off and calls it incomplete.

According to FBI statistics from 2013, white males committed 189 murders on black males while black males committed 409 murders on white males.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

If these rates were to hold, and the roles were reversed—i.e., if blacks represented 64 percent of the population while whites comprised only 13 percent—black-on-white murder would have exceeded 2,000 killings in 2013, while white-on-black murder would have resulted in only 39 deaths.

So I'm suppose to believe racism is alive and well by "racists white cops" (as gour put it) when in fact empirical evidence indicates that white people don't kill nearly as many black people as black people kill white people?

Am I missing something here?
 
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I hope the shooter is proven innocent, this is obviously the white cops fault. The fact that the shooter was black and has a criminal history has to mean its not his fault but the cop or the white person involved.
 

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