Discussion in '(MLB) Cleveland Indians' started by Scrote Squad, Oct 1, 2010.
It's not fun to watch minor league baseball at major league prices. I'd rather go to a sports bar and watch talented teams facing each other and have some beers under 5 dollars. Dolan's a cheap piece of shit and this will be the reality until he sells the team.
I feel like im watching the JV football team play on Saturdays.
why go downtown and pay ridiculous prices when I can see better baseball and better prices with the Lake County Captains and the Lake Erie Crushers?
Uh... the 'Jake' hadn't been packed like that on summer nights since 2001. That was 9 years ago.
I don't blame fans for losing interest in the team the last two years, they were a wholesale disappointment last year and the team ended the year as badly as they started it this season. But let's not fall into delusional fantasies about the 90s- the Indians were the only product in town worth watching, with the Browns defected to Baltimore and the Cavs being their usual afterthought. It was more spectacle than true love of baseball- the Indians were the shiny object of Cleveland sports. The Indians slugged, but every single year they had the exact same rotation problems, and every year the solution was the same: piece together a rotation of a young immature Bart Colon, and a couple no. 3-5s, usually a combo of Chuck Nagy and few vet castoffs, to get them 7 innings and hope the offense made up the diff. And they did- until the playoffs, when their lack of a top of the rotation reared its' head every single offseason (including 95 and 97). They were championship contenders much in the same way the Twins have been in the 00s (good enough to make the playoffs but not to advance), or the Hawks of the NBA. Very talented, but with an obvious flaw was that never corrected. Fans also don't notice that the team stayed together not b/c Jacobs was paying that much, but b/c Hart convinced the vets to take less so he could keep guys around. Hell, Hart's lone big FA pickup, Robbie Alomar, left money on the table to come here to play with his bro. But when folks look back, that isn't what they remember. The rose coloring seeps into their vision and all they see are sunshine and rainbows, not the reality of the time. Yeah, the Tribe has lost their 'cool'- no debating that. Even I found this season hard to stomach and I ended up not attending a bigleague game after the end of July. But this also wasn't 'Title Town' under Jacobs- just a well-paid, playoff-making (and playoff losing) team with enough shiney objects to keep the fans coming until the football team got its' legs under it again.
I can't believe you just compared those teams to the Hawks...we were about to win the World Series in 97, and we were in it in 95. The Hawks are not good enough to even sniff the Finals.
I agree with the rest but it doesn't change a damn thing. We still suck and will continue to suck until someone does something.
Yea, I gotta agree with, cmstophe.. The Indians of the 90's were a top 3 franchise for a period of time...I don't view the Hawks of basketball nor the Twins of baseball a top 3 in their respective sports... Personally, I would look at the '08 Phillies and compare them very favorably to the Indians of back in the day-- this Phillies team is basically what you would have gotten with the Tribe if they would have landed that ace....
Those were the 3 teams with a legit shot to win championships from like 96-01 with the Braves time extending a bit before that and probably ending in '99
Even the teams that get no love should...(i.e '96 and especially '99 squads)-- I personally thought the 1999 Cleveland Indians were the best of that entire era because they were complete offensively... Robbie Alomar's '99 and '01 seasons really go unnoticed-- Ramirez and Thome came into their own in '99 as well... They were a bit shakey at catcher and of course pitching was always the issue... But they had speed, patience and power throughout that lineup...
If the Indians would have landed Schilling or Pedro, they would have won it all... May have won two, because keep in mind they were up 2-1 on the Yankees in the '98 ALCS...
Dont forget about the 2007 team. We had the Boston series in our hands and we freaking fumbled it. I KNOW we could have beat the Rockies.
1) Kind of a pointless article...wait, you mean nobody wants to see a last place, rebuilding team in a city where the economic picture is beyond terrible?
2) The "Dolan is cheap" thing is so old and unfounded, it's not even funny.
Fact: He spent when the front office felt like the Indians had a chance to seriously contend, signing Kerry Wood to a 2 year, $20.5 M deal. That move obviously didn't work out, but you can't say he didn't spend.
Fact: He spent when the Indians locked up Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, and Jake Westbrook to long term deals. Again, you can question the moves, but you can't question the spending.
Fact: The Indians were in MLB's top five spenders on the 2010 Draft, spending a record $10 M to secure high-celing prospects.
Fact: The Indians offered CC Sabathia 4 years/$72 M ($18 M per), Manny Ramirez 7 years/$119 M ($17 M per), and Jim Thome 5 years/$60 M ($12 M per). These are not offers a cheap owner makes.
This offseason, they will probably lock up Choo and Cabrera.
The Indians are about as "cool" as every other team that's currently losing. Don't worry though - they'll be "cool" again in 2012, when the Indians return to the playoffs.
Cliff Lee shouldn't be playing for the Rangers and CC shouldn't be pitching for the Yankees. Flat out, you don't let two Cy Young winners get away in back to back years.
I understand letting Victor go because Santana is a stud but couldn't we have used Victor at 1st? I mean Hafner is awful. It just doesn't help that the teams that are playing in the playoffs are winning with guys we were unable to retain. Sends a bad message to the fan base and I'm sorry but we've been rebuilding for the majority of this decade. Why should the fans believe that we're going to be a perennial contender anytime soon? We overachieved a year or two but other than that we've been mediocre to absolute trash.
If you build it they will come. If you trade it or let it walk, they will stay home or find other things to do.
1) It's easy to say "we should have re-signed CC" if you totally ignore two things: A) CC wanted to go to NY, B) New York would have outbid any offer the Indians made. He wanted to leave...he knew it, the Indians knew it, so they got the best return possible for him.
2) There's a reason Cliff Lee has been traded two more times since the Indians dealt him to Philadelphia - he is going to demand some serious cash this winter. Again, if the Yankees or Red Sox want him, they can simply outbid any offer that Cleveland could potentially make.
3) I hated the Victor move, but we're stuck with Hafner...nothing you can do about it. They're not going to pay Victor handsomely when they have a 1B they believe will become a stud (LaPorta).
4) We did NOT overachieve in 2007...that was a damn good baseball team, one that was good enough to win it all. Unfortunately, we didn't get by Boston, but I get tired of hearing this overachieving crap. If you're going to bash them when they're bad, give them credit when they were good. They also had a very good team in 2005, and would have contended in 2008 if it wasn't for massive injury problems (Sizemore/Hafner/Martinez/Westbrook/Betancourt, etc).
5) They will not consistently contend until MLB fixes its economic issues. The team not consistently contending is NOT Dolan's fault. Until MLB fixes things (if they ever do), the Indians will have to try to contend in windows. 2005-2008 was one window. 2012-2015 will be another.
The Indians started horrible in 2008 even healthy, IIRC.
I was at this exact game the article was talking about. It was semi-packed and John Adams WAS there. Don't know what this guy is smoking.
I have no problem with the state of the Indians. I refuse to feel sorry for a cheap ass owner and the excuse for an organization he has assembled over the years. The Browns and Cavs are a different story. They have owners & GMs that are willing to spend money and sacrifice a profit for the better of the time. In other words, they are there to WIN. I do not put this on Shariro though, he has no flexibility or leverage to do anything.
My advice, sell the fucking team Dolan. The fans are out there, you just found a way to piss us off.
I sent this doucher an email.
"I have no problem with the state of the Indians" and then you rail against them. Did I misinterpret or what? I do agree with what you say though..
He, along with most of the people here, are part of the problem and not the solution.
I guess as Cavs fans, you're going to stop going to Cavs games because it's not "cool" anymore.
Oh wait, you'll say we have an owner who spends money and yadda yadda yadda. Get that BS out of here. A True Fan(TM) goes to see his team in September when they are out of it and 20 games under .500, as I did the night this article is written about.
For the record, we bought these tickets in August, before any of the promotions were announced for this game, not only that, but the only promotion we "used" was the fireworks. Didn't buy a $1 dog, didn't get in with my student ID, none of that.
So I'll see you at the ballpark with the True Fans(TM). Or, you could go slurp off of PIP and his Yankess and come crying back when we are good.
Going to the games won't make the team any better. It just means Dolan has more $$$ to pocket.
Well then going to the Cavs games won't make them any better either, yet everyone here will obviously still be flocking to the games even though they want the team to tank. Screw those people.
I won't be.