Indians Are No Longer 'Cool'

[Chris]

You also have to factor in not having Sabathia, Blake, and Byrd for the 2nd half...and they still went .500.

Losing your:

- Leadoff hitter and catalyst
- Best hitter and starting catcher
- #2 starter
- #3 starter
- Top setup reliever

...will kill you. I'm not sure how you can say injuries to key players can ruin a team's season when we have an example right in front of us - the 2010 Red Sox.

The disagreement between us is you are looking at the season as a whole, I am only looking at the beginning of the season, strictly. The first month. They should not have had a dreadful April/May, but they did. It's really water under the bridge anyways. That was 2 seasons ago, and the team was broken up that summer (the start of it, anyway, with Sabathia being traded).

By the way, while predictions are just statistically backed guesses, Peter Gammons, Buster Olney, Rob Neyer, and Keith Law - all very knowledge baseball analysts - picked the Indians to make the World Series in 2008. They were expected to be very good, and major injury problems killed it all.

Um, that doesn't mean anything. That was all based on what we did in 2007...I would have picked them too.

Totally agree with your post Snowblind.

 

[bigjmac0815]

I think the fans are expecting a playoff team like how the 90s were but there's one thing missing......Dick Jacobs......he was the one who had the right people in the front office.....they drafted the talent and build a team that would contend throughout the 90s and up to 2001.....then he sold the team to Dolan and thats when the troubles began because Dolan couldnt fork up the cash for superstar players like Thome, Omar, CC, Cliff, Blake, Victor and so on......Dolan needs to sell the team and someone that will pay out the cash to get the talent to make us a contender again

 

[Steve_424]

You guys can argue the past to your hearts desire, but it doesn't mean shit. Talking about the past is great, but all I'm reading is excuses for this team right now. 2007-choked, 2008-hit by injuries, purge of talent starts, 2009-injuries, continuation of purge, 2010- same thing as 09. The fact of the matter is this team is so fucking bad, that it hurts. How many of these players would start for another team? I guess Assdribble might, and that's it.

This team has no talent right now, and that's why fans won't come to games. It's that simple. Yeah, you talk about our minor league system (if your an average or less baseball fan then you have no idea who's in our minors or couldn't care less) , but that's years away from now. 2012 is when some prospects will be up, but that doesn't mean they'll have an immediate impact. It will probably take a year or 2 to get acclimated to MLB pitching. Matter of fact, our drafting has been horrible until 2008. You simple cannot do that if you have a owner that won't spend the big bucks to keep players. That has to be on Shapiro and his staff, considering he hired them.

If Dolan won't sign players in FA, then that money has to go to the draft. Obviously he did this for this past draft, which is great. He needs to do this all the time for the draft (maybe not spend a record breaking amount but he needs to sign the high end talent). So I put blame on Dolan for being cheap and Shapiro for having his head up his ass regarding the draft and not making changes sooner. Yeah, I could put injuries in that list, but c'mon guys.. injuries happen to every team.

You don't think Choo, Sizemore, or Santana would start for other teams?

The rest of your response is simply blaming Dolan for MLB's errors.

 

[Steve_424]

The disagreement between us is you are looking at the season as a whole, I am only looking at the beginning of the season, strictly. The first month. They should not have had a dreadful April/May, but they did. It's really water under the bridge anyways. That was 2 seasons ago, and the team was broken up that summer (the start of it, anyway, with Sabathia being traded).

A season isn't decided based on April's record. Atlanta and Texas were both in last place on April 30th of this year, and they're now both heading to the playoffs (I think Atlanta will pull through). Also, the start of any team's season would be greatly affected by losing the players the Indians lost early on.

Um, that doesn't mean anything. That was all based on what we did in 2007...I would have picked them too.

Totally agree with your post Snowblind.

Um, with that logic, people would be predicting the Cavs to be a #1 seed. These weren't predictions being made by Michael Reghi or something, they were made by some of the best baseball analysts in the business, and they were made based on their personal evaluations of how good the 2008 team was going to be.

 

[Chris]

The disagreement between us is you are looking at the season as a whole, I am only looking at the beginning of the season, strictly. The first month. They should not have had a dreadful April/May, but they did. It's really water under the bridge anyways. That was 2 seasons ago, and the team was broken up that summer (the start of it, anyway, with Sabathia being traded).

A season isn't decided based on April's record. Atlanta and Texas were both in last place on April 30th of this year, and they're now both heading to the playoffs (I think Atlanta will pull through). Also, the start of any team's season would be greatly affected by losing the players the Indians lost early on.

Um, that doesn't mean anything. That was all based on what we did in 2007...I would have picked them too.

Totally agree with your post Snowblind.

Um, with that logic, people would be predicting the Cavs to be a #1 seed. These weren't predictions being made by Michael Reghi or something, they were made by some of the best baseball analysts in the business, and they were made based on their personal evaluations of how good the 2008 team was going to be.

Good god, no way you are dumb enough to make that "Cavs #1 Seed" comment and not be joking. You really don't comprehend the fact that just because a team is amazing the year before, and people predict them to be amazing the next year, that this doesn't always come to fruition even if there are no injuries?

If that's the case, there is no point in me discussing this with you.

Secondly, a season is not made in April and May, but the foundations are, and the only thing I was saying is that the Tribe right from the start of the 2008 season. They weren't good, and then got a bunch of injuries and started sucking. No, they were straight suck right from Day 1.

 

[BlueSeats626]

If only Jacobs ever spent on pitching and if only Hart wouldn't have balked at trading Jaret Wright for Pedro.

Those teams never had the front of rotation arms they needed.

Anyone expecting to return to the 1990s is dreaming. That was the perfect storm. I enjoyed the 2005 and 2007 teams more than I did some of those 90s teams. Good character guys who didn't seem to have any egos and enjoyed playing with eachother. Between Lofton, Belle, Manny, etc I can't imagine what that clubhouse was like when the cameras weren't around.

Too bad the 2007 team ran into a brick wall named Josh Beckett.

 

[Chris]

If only Jacobs ever spent on pitching and if only Hart wouldn't have balked at trading Jaret Wright for Pedro.

Those teams never had the front of rotation arms they needed.

Anyone expecting to return to the 1990s is dreaming. That was the perfect storm. I enjoyed the 2005 and 2007 teams more than I did some of those 90s teams. Good character guys who didn't seem to have any egos and enjoyed playing with eachother. Between Lofton, Belle, Manny, etc I can't imagine what that clubhouse was like when the cameras weren't around.

Too bad the 2007 team ran into a brick wall named Josh Beckett.

I don't give a fuck about egos, I care about winning. If we won with dicks like Lofton, Belle, and Manny, who cares? We had a dick named LeBron James for years. A lot of people knew he was a dick, some of us denied it but...we looked the other way because he won us a shit ton of games.

 

[Snowblind]

You don't think Choo, Sizemore, or Santana would start for other teams?

The rest of your response is simply blaming Dolan for MLB's errors.

I did forget about Choo. Ill give you that. And you need to lay off of Sizemore's nuts. He hasn't done anything for 2 years. He's always injured and just came off a major knee surgery. I know Santana can start for teams, but right now he isn't playing cause he's injured.

Yeah, I guess it's the MLB's fault because we can't draft well right? I guess Dolan must employ you since he nor our FO can do no harm.

 

[Chris]

I did forget about Choo. Ill give you that. And you need to lay off of Sizemore's nuts. He hasn't done anything for 2 years. He's always injured and just came off a major knee surgery. I know Santana can start for teams, but right now he isn't playing cause he's injured.

Yeah, I guess it's the MLB's fault because we can't draft well right? I guess Dolan must employ you since he nor our FO can do no harm.

Yeah sg has a SERIOUS man crush on Sizemore, who has been garbage or injured for years now.

 

[Pyro]

Sizemore sucks. Wouldn't mind trading him, but nobody would take him.

 

[Steve_424]

I did forget about Choo. Ill give you that. And you need to lay off of Sizemore's nuts. He hasn't done anything for 2 years. He's always injured and just came off a major knee surgery. I know Santana can start for teams, but right now he isn't playing cause he's injured.

Yeah, I guess it's the MLB's fault because we can't draft well right? I guess Dolan must employ you since he nor our FO can do no harm.

I didn't know recognizing that a player is good when healthy is being "on someone's nuts"...I apologize.

MLB isn't at fault for the drafting, but the system is at fault for Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Albert Belle, Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Victor Martinez, and others that the Indians developed going on to greener pastures.

And I never said Dolan was free of blame, I just said he was better than Lerner.

 

[Chris]

I didn't know recognizing that a player is good when healthy is being "on someone's nuts"...I apologize.

MLB isn't at fault for the drafting, but the system is at fault for Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Albert Belle, Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Victor Martinez, and others that the Indians developed going on to greener pastures.

And I never said Dolan was free of blame, I just said he was better than Lerner.

K, the problem is he hasn't been healthy in years. His 2008 was a good season but I'm not sure I'd call it great, either.

 

[Steve_424]

K, the problem is he hasn't been healthy in years. His 2008 was a good season but I'm not sure I'd call it great, either.

I have a man crush on him because I think he's good when healthy?

His last full healthy season - 2008 - he was in the top ten of MVP voting, was an All-Star, and won a Silver Slugger and Gold Glove. You can question his ability to stay healthy, or if he can come back strong from knee surgery, but nothing statistically backs the "Sizemore is garbage" argument, unless you ignore 2005-2008.

 

[Chris]

Pro sports is what have you done for me lately?

In Sizemore's case...it's nothing.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

I feel like Grady isn't even on the team anymore. It feels like it has been so long since I remember watching him play. I think Grady is a good player when healthy. I don't go to either extreme of thinking he is a bum or that he is a superstar.