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Indians Trade Deadline Analysis

Discussion in '(MLB) Cleveland Indians' started by TheSigningBonus, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. TheSigningBonus

    TheSigningBonus Rookie

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    Deal 1: Kosuke Fukudome for Abner Abreu and Carlton Smith.

    Fukudome is a guy who plays right away, plays good defense, and gets on base. He is not an impact player, but he will be better than Travis Buck, Austin Kearns, Shelly Duncan, and whatever retread they want to throw out there. He also fits into what the Indians are trying to do with the all lefty hitting outfield (sarcasm). The outfield defense with Fukudome, Brantley, Choo, and Sizemore will be pretty darn good, provided the latter two return to action soon.
    Abreu is a toolsy guy, who may end up being a decent player, but is not apart of this current window of contention (something that will be discussed at a later time). Smith is a bullpen arm that in my opinion didn't really project to much.
    Verdict: I think the Tribe's a winnaaa.

    Deal 2: Thomas Neal for Orlando Cabrera.

    Neal is probably what we could max out for in return for Cabrera. Coming into the year, Baseball America had him ranked the 7th best prospect in the Giants organization. He has been a doubles type hitter in the minors for the Giants, and gives the Tribe a sorely needed right handed option in the outfield.
    Cabrera is a polarizing guy. He is always in the playoffs. He is a great mentor, and by all accounts what he did for Asdrubal Cabrera this year is off the charts. That said, he didn't really have a place on this team. Kipnis needs to play.
    Verdict: I'll take it.


    Deal 3: Ubaldo Jimenez for The Farm.

    I was walking to the movie theater when I got news this deal was just about complete. I was checking my phone all through Captain America (good flick by the way). I couldn't wrap my head around it at the time. In the hours since this all went down, I have read a ton of analysis. I have talked friends off the ledge. Maybe I'm a glass half full kinda guy. But I like the deal. Don't get me wrong, I love White and Pomeranz. But the more I read about Jimenez, the more I like it. He is under control for at least two more years (if this option clause in his contract is transferable, three more). Let me lay some numbers on you: In Jimenez's 10 starts since July 1, he has 63 strikeouts in 66 innings, and a 2.58 ERA. In his last 77 innings he has 77 strike outs and 11 walks. I am in the believing-he-just-needed-some-time-to-get-healthy corner.
    Nice Career. Not.
    White and Pomeranz project as legitimate Major League number two starters, which is no small feat. They will be good. It will be tough to stomach. Was I secretly hoping Ubaldo would fail his physical? Maybe. But the fact of the matter is we are hoping these two guys come into what Ubaldo is doing. Pitching is such a tough thing to project. Anyone who has ever owned a Brien Taylor rookie card knows what I'm talking about.
    And the underlying theme that no one seems to be talking about just yet is the fact that this deal signifies a window of contention for the Tribe. We've all heard that this ownership will spend money when the time is right. After the playoffs in 07, we heard it, and we did add salary. Albeit in the wrong places, we tried. With Jimenez's contract being so club friendly, I think we will be in a position to add the bat we sorely need this offseason. The package we gave up for Jimenez probably could have brought us Hunter Pence. But we would still need pitching. And we wouldn't have enough money to make that happen after his arbitration. Other than that, what bat was available?
    Verdict: After much debate, I'm buyin this one.
     
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  2. MattyFos.

    MattyFos. Ballplayer

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    :yay:

    Nice debut post
     
  3. KCOTT

    KCOTT OSU Alum

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    I'd be okay with the Jimenez trade if we were sitting pretty in first like we were in early May. But now I feel like this season has been a good thing and nothing more. Even with Jimenez, I doubt we make a serious postseason run. Therefore, I would have rather just gone into spring next year knowing Pomeranz and White probably would have been anchoring the rotation for us for the next 5 or so years.
     
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  4. SOA

    SOA Banned

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    this is a classic example of Tribe Fans buying into the hype and overvaluing our own prospects based solely on paper

    White has started 3 Major League games and Pomeranz has yet to pitch above AA

    we need a legit#1 in the rotation so masterson and Tomlin don't have to go against the Verlander and weavers of the world . we got that in Ubaldo
     
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  5. Bob_The_Cat

    Bob_The_Cat NBA Starter

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    The point is that this team us ready to compete next year. Because so many of the young guys have played really well this season, and Hafner has bonced back from his injury, the timetable to really compete got pushed up. Aside some Carmona, Masterson was the only other starter who started more than 30 games in his career. The Tribe needed to add a veteran starter not only for this year, but for the future. They were fortunate to get a young be who can be a key part ofthe future.

    I like Pomeranz and White, but they'll both be rookies next year. Pomeranz may not have seen Cleveland until the All-Star break and White is coming off the same hand injury that claimed Adam Miller's career. The Indians knew that if they wanted to letgtimately compete for the division and make a WS bid in the next couple years they couldn't depend on White and Pomeranz developing quickly. They aquired a front of the staff starter in Ubaldo who can be one of the most dominating pitchers in baseball. There's plenty of guys at AAA that can take over the 4&5 spots in the rotation. I just think everyone is shocked because this is the type of move we aren't used to seeing the Indians make. I think two years from now, this trade will look very favorable to the Indians.
     
  6. Gunther

    Gunther In Chill Mode

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    Welcome to the forum. Can you tell me what you meant by this portion of your post? As I understand it, there was a clause in Ubaldo's contract that gave him the ability to void the 2014 option year completely, which he will very likely do (99.99999% chance). This was only available to him if he was traded, which he has been. So I'm not aware of anything being transferable. Can you expand on this? Thanks.
     
  7. Marcus

    Marcus Let's go Cabs!

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    How can you be so certain that either one of them would have turned out as projected? At least we got a proven commodity and an ace in our rotation.
     
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  8. DougHeil

    DougHeil The Seasoned Pro

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    Nice first post. Couple of things however.

    I have wrote about our window to being a contender has been moved up to 2011, 2012, and 2013. Did so almost immediately after the trade. Pomeranz and White are not guaranteed sure things. In fact, most pitchers never reach whatever was projected. Ubaldo already got there. He's proven. Let's just hope a better ballpark for pitching and hitters who do not know him transfers to many wins. Further; you don't trade for a hitter like Pence for a pitcher like Pomeranz. You should trade pitching for pitching as a good/great pitcher is more valuable than an above average hitter. So yeah, I would rather have Ubaldo for our pitching prospects than Pence any day. We figure to get better with hitting in about two weeks and then again when Sizemore comes back. Hopefully we aren't out of contention when that happens. :)
     
  9. DJTJ

    DJTJ 3 ball... got it!

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    Ding, ding, ding. We get Choo back, but we have to keep ourselves out of a 6/7 game hole.
     
  10. DougHeil

    DougHeil The Seasoned Pro

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    Yes. Even if not that true Ace, a #2 means we have three way above average front end starters. I'll take that over two prospects who at best won't be impact pitchers for at least two more years. Our window to win is right now. This year. Next year. Year after next. If we can forecast our young kids at many positions getting experience this year, and then showing lots of improvement next year, there is reason to believe that not only can we win our division, but also contend for a title starting next year. .... if everyone is healthy and our SP stays like they are now and actually improves even more.
     
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  11. Jon

    Jon ~

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    What bugs me is that the Indians aren't in contention ... the Central Division just stinks.

    Still, I don't mind the idea of trading prospects for a still young/proven commodity ... we've been on the other end of that often enough and seen how prospects don't always pan out ... but we can't afford to overpay for a guy who isn't actually an ace but just had a career season like Carmona had in '07.
     
  12. sjeppe

    sjeppe In the Rotation

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    Jimenez had 3 really good years in a row...

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/ubaldo-jimenez/careerstats/423501
     
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  13. Gimme Some Mo

    Gimme Some Mo All-Star

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    It's funny how White and Pomeranz went from great prospects with ace potential in the minds of most Indians fans to two guys with very low ceilings that could very likely be Jeremy Sowers and Adam Miller all over again.

    I know we traded them, but how the hell does that change so many people's opinions on them?
     
  14. Gunther

    Gunther In Chill Mode

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    I didn't say anything at the time in these threads, but I had real concerns when it was announced that White would be going to the bullpen after returning. Didn't make any sense to me. My guess was either they were babying him (throw fewer innings from the bullpen) for the rest of this season, or they were scared to death that they were facing another Miller situation. After bringing him up so early in the season, not avoiding Super 2 status if you remember, I think they felt some nervousness about the whole situation. Pure speculation on my part, of course. But I'm happy we have a proven entity who is ready to go this season.
     
  15. AZ_

    AZ_ Hall-of-Famer

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    White has never...ever...been considered of ace potential.
     
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