• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Israeli Cavs/Blatt fans meetup?

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Freilauf said:
well he's maybe in the conversation but Messina and Obradovic have much more overall european achievements. With all Blatt has achieved he's not even close. Obradovic and Messina have 12 Euroleague trophies together. with all due respect.
Click to expand...

Messina to me is a little over-rated, sure the guy have 4 euroleague titles but he got most of them as a favorite. those Bologne teams had great rosters (including one young guy named Emanuel Ginóbili) and he got them a very long time ago (1998 and 2001) so I think there is a slight discount in their importance as time goes by. and those CSKA teams he won with were even more loaded with talent.

Of course Messina gets a lot of credit for actually winning but a lot of his teams should have won it anyway. look at Pablo Laso- this guy is a TERRIBLE coach, and he just won a euroleague title- his roster is just that good (you can actually make the case for their roster being better than some NBA lottery teams).

Sinca 2008, Messina haven't won a title despite getting a pretty much blank-check from Real Madrid (2009-2011), was part of the failing Lakers (2011-2012) and didn't manage to win again with CSKA despite, again, getting pretty much a blank check 2012-2014 (including getting completely out-coached by a guy named Blatt while having a guy deep in his bench with the same salary as Maccabi's starting five put together).

Obradovic is different, he has 8(!) title with 3 different clubs and a lot of this title didn't came with high-budget teams. but Obradovic is really not suited to the NBA in term of how he treats players and his behaviour:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ABVXhAH1Q

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-gyjtOnwA8


Sure Blatt have one euroleague title as head-coach but that title was with a team no-one expected to reach the final 4, he took mediocre Maccabi teams with very low salary budgets to compete at the highst levels, he had a lot of influence in the Maccabi team that went back-to-back Euroleague wins (2004-2005), and maybe the biggest success for him is with national teams:

He won Russia their first Eurobasket with a team built around AK47 and other guys unknown to people outside of europe against a Spain team with Pau and Marc Gasol, Jose Calderon, Rudy Fernandez and Euroleague legend Juan Carlos "la bomba" Navaro among others.
In 2011 he won a bronze medal in the EuroBasket losing to France (with Tony Parker, Noah, Batum).
And of course his 2012 medal in the Olympic games.

Personally I think Blatt is a better coach than Messina and not at Obradovic level yet, but I don't think his resume is any worse when you consider what he did- and who he did it with, in context I think his coaching resume is just as good as Messina's.
 
I have no idea what is going on in this thread. :chuckle:

I do want to see pictures of the meetup posted here, even if it is just TLV and some guy who is hungry.
 
I'm from Ashkelon, if you have a parking space than I will probably come. What would be the source for the game? League pass?
 
TLV said:
Sorry for the slightly off topic post, but this is where all us crazy irrational Israeli David Blatt obsessives hang out.

Fellow Israelites, would anyone fancy doing a bit of a TLV get together for Game 2 (Friday night Sat morning: 3.30am)? Could be pretty fun. I have a projector which we screen the games onto the wall with and would gladly host.

Entry fee: Hummus and Goldstar.

Apologies to all board members that followed Cleveland before June 2014. I'll send you artsy instagram pictures of pita bread in the foreground and Mozgov dunking int he background in the live game feed.
Click to expand...
I would love to come!!!
please send me the details man...
 
Amit149 said:
Messina to me is a little over-rated, sure the guy have 4 euroleague titles but he got most of them as a favorite. those Bologne teams had great rosters (including one young guy named Emanuel Ginóbili) and he got them a very long time ago (1998 and 2001) so I think there is a slight discount in their importance as time goes by. and those CSKA teams he won with were even more loaded with talent.

Of course Messina gets a lot of credit for actually winning but a lot of his teams should have won it anyway. look at Pablo Laso- this guy is a TERRIBLE coach, and he just won a euroleague title- his roster is just that good (you can actually make the case for their roster being better than some NBA lottery teams).

Sinca 2008, Messina haven't won a title despite getting a pretty much blank-check from Real Madrid (2009-2011), was part of the failing Lakers (2011-2012) and didn't manage to win again with CSKA despite, again, getting pretty much a blank check 2012-2014 (including getting completely out-coached by a guy named Blatt while having a guy deep in his bench with the same salary as Maccabi's starting five put together).

Obradovic is different, he has 8(!) title with 3 different clubs and a lot of this title didn't came with high-budget teams. but Obradovic is really not suited to the NBA in term of how he treats players and his behaviour:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ABVXhAH1Q

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-gyjtOnwA8


Sure Blatt have one euroleague title as head-coach but that title was with a team no-one expected to reach the final 4, he took mediocre Maccabi teams with very low salary budgets to compete at the highst levels, he had a lot of influence in the Maccabi team that went back-to-back Euroleague wins (2004-2005), and maybe the biggest success for him is with national teams:

He won Russia their first Eurobasket with a team built around AK47 and other guys unknown to people outside of europe against a Spain team with Pau and Marc Gasol, Jose Calderon, Rudy Fernandez and Euroleague legend Juan Carlos "la bomba" Navaro among others.
In 2011 he won a bronze medal in the EuroBasket losing to France (with Tony Parker, Noah, Batum).
And of course his 2012 medal in the Olympic games.

Personally I think Blatt is a better coach than Messina and not at Obradovic level yet, but I don't think his resume is any worse when you consider what he did- and who he did it with, in context I think his coaching resume is just as good as Messina's.
Click to expand...
Obradovic and Messina both have more Euroleague titles, BUT they won all of their titles with a very favourite teams. besides maybe Partizan (though he had some talent in these teams and in those years Euroleague didn't had super teams like today) and Badalona. In the last few years with teams with a top 3 highest budget in Europe he has failed time and time again. He also failed completely with his NT.
Blatt brought together the 2004/5 Maccabi core with a small budget, that team decimated Euroleague competition including Obradovic's Panathinaikos that had higher budget. Blatt won as a HC the Euroleague after defeating last years two "super teams" of CSKA and Real madrid. these teams had players that earn in a year Maccabi's player budget. And the most incredible achievement that Blatt had and the one that shows he is a master of taking a team with not amazingly talented players and turn it to a powerhouse team is with the Russian NT. The fact they defeated the Spanish NT in Spain in the 2007 Eurobasket finals to me is still one of the biggest upsets in sports, not to mention the olympic bronze medal. Just remembring how USA basketball had tough times against these guys in the olympics, It's absolutley amazing. By the way for the last Mundobasket the Russian NT didn't even qualify...
 
Blatt certainly opened a door that he was uniquely qualified to open. He's done so against a lot of resistance as the coaching establishment is perfectly happy to see the system continue to operate the way it always has with former players and long-time assistants getting the opportunities.

But is this really the best way to find the best leaders and the best innovators?

Maybe the previous generation of Euro league coaches won't be able to punch through to the NBA like Blatt has, but he may very well open things up for the next generation.

At the moment there seems to be an infatuation with inexperienced NCAA coaches who've had success and shown some creativity. These guys have worked with young American players and can transition easily to coaching a young team. The NCAA also affords the ability for coaches at smaller schools to show what they can do with lesser talent. The problem here is that lesser talent is often more experienced because the kids stay in school longer. Plus coaching young players is not the same as coaching veterans.

So, the NCAA is hardly perfect for breeding coaches, but neither is the Euroleague.

There's a window of opportunity here, but whether it's just a step, or a breakthrough - we'll just have to see.
 
Jon said:
Blatt certainly opened a door that he was uniquely qualified to open. He's done so against a lot of resistance as the coaching establishment is perfectly happy to see the system continue to operate the way it always has with former players and long-time assistants getting the opportunities.

But is this really the best way to find the best leaders and the best innovators?

Maybe the previous generation of Euro league coaches won't be able to punch through to the NBA like Blatt has, but he may very well open things up for the next generation.

At the moment there seems to be an infatuation with inexperienced NCAA coaches who've had success and shown some creativity. These guys have worked with young American players and can transition easily to coaching a young team. The NCAA also affords the ability for coaches at smaller schools to show what they can do with lesser talent. The problem here is that lesser talent is often more experienced because the kids stay in school longer. Plus coaching young players is not the same as coaching veterans.

So, the NCAA is hardly perfect for breeding coaches, but neither is the Euroleague.

There's a window of opportunity here, but whether it's just a step, or a breakthrough - we'll just have to see.
Click to expand...

I think coaching in the euroleague gives a better insight than coaching in the NCAA. Coaching young adults and coaching adults are 2 totally different things. The wgo level is different to say the list. Obviously the prospect talent is better in the colleges(even though some draft picks don't even make it in europe, not to mention the NBA)

Joe Alexander, number 8 draft pick in 2008 has failed to leave a good impression in his 6 month in europe as a maccabi player
 
I think he was pretty ok, tbh.
Don't forget he joined midway through the season and needed time to get in rhythm. But he showed good D, a surprising 3pt%, athlethisicm... I think he could be a force to be reckoned with. Hope they keep him.
 
tocov said:
I think he was pretty ok, tbh.
Don't forget he joined midway through the season and needed time to get in rhythm. But he showed good D, a surprising 3pt%, athlethisicm... I think he could be a force to be reckoned with. Hope they keep him.
Click to expand...
That depends on the budget they will have for the coming year, the Israeli league has some rule (The Russian rule) regarding writing more than 6 foreign players on the game roster, as such if Maccabi has a big budget they won't spend the allocation on an OK player at that position, there are better forwards to be had in Europe.

Also, they are trying to get him an Israeli citizenship, should be good for him tax wise and avoids the aforementioned Russian rule, but that is a long shot as there are various conditions that he needs to meet (which I won't go into).
 
I still think they should keep him unless he really is in the way of some amazing deal.
I think he will be much better in his second season. They gave up on Udrih and were sorry later.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top