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Jared from Subway's house is currently being raided by the FBI...

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When I was 27 I flirted a few times with the female bartender at my local bar. After a few visits we exchanged numbers and started dating. She was a bartender so I knew she had to be 21 years of age. She told me that she was 21 and that she would soon be 22. After four months of dating we celebrated her 22nd birthday. That night she was crying and said she needed to tell me something. I'm thinking herpes, pregnant, cheated... She told me she was 17 and wouldn't be 18 for a few months. I broke up with her because of the lies but we ended up back together. We are now about to celebrate her 22nd for real and I just turned 32.
I never broke any laws because 16 is the age of consent in Ohio. A 50 year old can date and have sex with someone 16. I was never looking to date a teen and had no clue she wasn't 21. I have spent half my life in Arizona where the age of consent is 18. If this had happened there my life could have been ruined.
I believe that someone into children or prepubescent girls is sick and needs help\jail\death. In my case the girl illegally obtained a job and lied to me. The law should recognize situations like that.
 
Yeah, I think you're meaning girls who are 16-17-years old having sex with 20-somethings. I have no problem with that at all. It's been going on since forever. It's no one's business but theirs, and it's not criminal behavior in most states as far as I know.

it is in new york where the age of consent is 17 with the exception that under that age they can have sex with someone up to 4 years older. So basically it's not a crime for a person to have sex with someone they go to school with.

And if you believe in it or not, paying someone to have sex with you is also illegal. And clearly soliciting for sex from a 14 year old is illegal everywhere, as it should be.

If a girl lies about her age, the guy shouldn't be a criminal - especially in cases where there is reasonable expectation of their age based on other factors that have been mentioned in this thread. There's a case like that in the news. If they are reasonably close in age, the older person shouldn't be a criminal. Neither of these are issues in this case.

This is a case about a 30 year old using his fame and fortune to solicit sex from girls as young as 14, some of whom he's supposed to be mentoring, paying someone to secretly film underage children and and acquire and send him pornography from children as young as 6.
 
A 16-year old boy having sex with 40-year old woman who happens to teach at his school is not rape. He's not being raped. So let's drop that pretense.

Yet, this woman would be convicted of serving prison time for doing so.

Who is the victim here? The boy who got high fives and was bragging about it?

Sure it shouldn't be permissible behavior; but let's not call it rape. I don't even think it's criminal. Fire her, ban her from teaching ever again. But putting her in prison for decades? C'mon.

I'll just highlight this to talk about what you said in my post as well.

I understand your logic that if a 16 year old can bang a 17 year old then they should be able to bang a 40 year old, but the above example is a bit more problematic because you're bringing in the possibility of coercion due to the teacher's position of authority.

More generally though, while on one hand I agree with you that biologically people are ready to have sex in their teens, on the other I have serious doubts that most or even many are ready for the mental side of sex. Sure, they understand that penis goes in vagina and their bodies are telling them that they really want that, but there are a lot of mental ramifications that can last long after the act itself.

I doubt that I'll be able to convince you that they aren't read though because we just come from different experience points. I didn't have sex until my early 20's because I wanted to wait until I found someone that I really cared about and cared about me too. That's not to say though that I wouldn't have potentially had sex before that if I had found the right person.

Not to be disparaging of you, but you seem to come from more of a point of view that everyone should be out there getting whatever they can because that's what you did. I never had that desire which doesn't at all make me better, just different. You also turned out fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone will when they have sex with older people.

You're right though that you are never going to stop teens from having sex because they are going to because their bodies tell them they want it. But I just think it's hard to give a blanket statement that all 16 and 17 year olds (or even 18, 19, and some early 20 year olds) are truly "ready" to have sex with anyone they want. It's equally as hard though to legislate what that proper age really is, and I fully agree with you that it is quite silly to act like anyone suddenly "gleans knowledge" when they turn 18.

Either way, this is definitely a murky topic.
 
it is in new york where the age of consent is 17 with the exception that under that age they can have sex with someone up to 4 years older. So basically it's not a crime for a person to have sex with someone they go to school with.

Right, but my quote was that AFAIK the majority of states recognize the age of consent as being 16; and in fact, this is true; 31 states hold that sex with a person 16 years old or older is not a criminal offense. New York is one of only 8 states that have the age of consent as 17, with the remaining 11 states having their age set at 18.

And if you believe in it or not, paying someone to have sex with you is also illegal.

As I said in numerous posts; I'm not debating the legality of the law, I'm debating the ethics and just nature of the law. Smoking pot recreationally is illegal, that doesn't mean such laws are justified. That's the argument I'm making.

And clearly soliciting for sex from a 14 year old is illegal everywhere, as it should be.

Right of course, but I don't think anyone is arguing it shouldn't be.

If a girl lies about her age, the guy shouldn't be a criminal - especially in cases where there is reasonable expectation of their age based on other factors that have been mentioned in this thread. There's a case like that in the news. If they are reasonably close in age, the older person shouldn't be a criminal. Neither of these are issues in this case.

"If they are reasonably close in age" only comes into play for me if the "victim" has not impersonated an adult. If they are in a club, which cards people at the door, I don't think one can fault the other party. Again, to me it boils down to whether or not a reasonable person would make the same distinction. It's a grey area, but I'm comfortable with criminal charges against persons who sleep with girls under 16 - but they should not be considered either felony or rape charges.

This is a case about a 30 year old using his fame and fortune to solicit sex from girls as young as 14, some of whom he's supposed to be mentoring, paying someone to secretly film underage children and and acquire and send him pornography from children as young as 6.

And that really isn't what that last few pages are about; they're about a topic that @Soda wanted to discuss - statutory rape. And so we have.
 
Yeah, no one is seriously condoning anything what Jared did. We've derailed this thread quite a bit.

Jared is a predator, and a sick bastard.

But in general, the statutory rape laws aren't very justified. A person that unknowingly has sex with a minor, to me, shouldn't be punished at all.

I am not against statutory rape laws in general, they should exist. But they should be defined more, and in some states I believe they've made some progress. If a person is 18, and has sex with a 17 year old, who gives a shit.

Anyone under 25, I don't really care if they're having sex with girls under age. It's not a big deal. It's not creepy either. Believe it or not, but the age 25 and 16 isn't that big of an age gap as some people think.

Maturity and emotionally, both ages aren't vastly different. Obviously 25 you're an adult, but you're a very young adult, not completely out of the realm of your teenage lifestyle just yet. A 25 year old probably can relate better to a 16 year old, than say a 40 year old.

I think there should be at least a 5 year gap allowed, at least. I'd prefer a 10 year personally. But 14 years or younger, that's totally different.

It seems like the legal age in a lot of states is 16, which is fine with me.

That doesn't make it RIGHT for anyone to have sex with a 16 year old, let that not be mistaken. I think it's sick, if a 38 year old guy is having sex with a 16 year old. It's creepy and gross. But it shouldn't be a criminal act, either.

There are a lot of things people that are creepy, but they shouldn't literally go to jail for it.
 
Yeah, no one is seriously condoning anything what Jared did. We've derailed this thread quite a bit.

Jared is a predator, and a sick bastard.

But in general, the statutory rape laws aren't very justified. A person that unknowingly has sex with a minor, to me, shouldn't be punished at all.

I am not against statutory rape laws in general, they should exist. But they should be defined more, and in some states I believe they've made some progress. If a person is 18, and has sex with a 17 year old, who gives a shit.

Anyone under 25, I don't really care if they're having sex with girls under age. It's not a big deal. It's not creepy either. Believe it or not, but the age 25 and 16 isn't that big of an age gap as some people think.

Maturity and emotionally, both ages aren't vastly different. Obviously 25 you're an adult, but you're a very young adult, not completely out of realm of your teenage life just yet. A 25 year old probably can relate better to a 16 year old, more than a 40 year old.

I think there should be at least a 5 year gap allowed, at least. I'd prefer a 10 year personally. But 14 years or young, that's totally different.

It seems like the legal age in a lot of states is 16, which is fine with me.

That doesn't make it RIGHT for anyone to have sex with a 16 year old, let that not be mistaken. I think it's sick, if a 38 year old guy is having sex with a 16 year old. It's creepy and gross. But it shouldn't be a criminal act, either.

There are a lot of things people that are creepy, but they shouldn't literally go to jail for it.

I know some advocate that the age of consent should be pushed below 16 (linking it to puberty) because historically, people married much younger in some places, but that just isn't persuasive to me. There are a lot of things people used to do hundreds of years ago that we don't do any more because we believe them to be wrong. Considering much longer people live now, compulsory school attendance, etc., I think 16 is probably as low as we should go, though I do agree with the age-difference exceptions factoring in there at some level as well.
 
I know some advocate that the age of consent should be pushed below 16 (linking it to puberty) because historically, people married much younger in some places, but that just isn't persuasive to me. There are a lot of things people used to do hundreds of years ago that we don't do any more because we believe them to be wrong. Considering much longer people live now, compulsory school attendance, etc., I think 16 is probably as low as we should go, though I do agree with the age-difference exceptions factoring in there at some level as well.

I think 16 is fine, I wouldn't have it lower. But I'd have at least an age gap. Like if a 20 year old, plows a 15 year old, should he go to jail? I don't think he should.

Ronald Reagan plowed Piper Laurie, when she was 16, and he was in his 40s. :chuckle:
 
I think 16 is fine, I wouldn't have it lower. But I'd have at least an age gap. Like if a 20 year old, plows a 15 year old, should he go to jail? I don't think he should.

Ronald Reagan plowed Piper Laurie, when she was 16, and he was in his 40s. :chuckle:

Nah. He allegedly (according to her) plowed her when she was 18. She was playing the role of a 16 year old at the time.

Don't blaspheme the Gipper.
 
She's a hell of a talent. One of my all-time favorite actresses.
 
I'll just highlight this to talk about what you said in my post as well.

I understand your logic that if a 16 year old can bang a 17 year old then they should be able to bang a 40 year old, but the above example is a bit more problematic because you're bringing in the possibility of coercion due to the teacher's position of authority.

See, that's the thing, if you can prove or demonstrate coercion, even between adults, then you have a case. But to create a blanket law that criminalizes sex with willing, able and consenting participants is a bridge too far.

As I said, 16 is a fair limit. Then I've no problem with things being handled by the courts; my only problem in that instance is this being considered felony rape.

More generally though, while on one hand I agree with you that biologically people are ready to have sex in their teens, on the other I have serious doubts that most or even many are ready for the mental side of sex. Sure, they understand that penis goes in vagina and their bodies are telling them that they really want that, but there are a lot of mental ramifications that can last long after the act itself.

You can say this about 99% of the people you'd find in any nightclub. That should not, and frankly isn't, a realistic barrier for sexual activity. Nor is it the case that on your 18th birthday that you are more likely to understand sex acts than someone who is a few days or a year and a day younger than you are.

It's simply an arbitrary barrier designed solely to protect the innocence of young girls. We would not be talking about this if it were always framed in the context of a 16 year old boy, junior in high school having a 19 year old girlfriend, a freshman in college. Even if the girl is in her 20s, no one would want her jailed.

We only talk about this in the context of young girls; for really antiquated and outmoded reasons.

I doubt that I'll be able to convince you that they aren't read though because we just come from different experience points. I didn't have sex until my early 20's because I wanted to wait until I found someone that I really cared about and cared about me too. That's not to say though that I wouldn't have potentially had sex before that if I had found the right person.

You're right... we have very different experiences.

I've shared my first sexual experiences on this board before (hell, it even came up in the weekend chats). I was essentially "raped" by my best friends older sister. I put "rape" around quotes because by any definition you'll find, it was rape - and no it was not consensual, I said no, she told me she'd tell all my friends I was a "fag" because I was scared and "didn't like girls." She was popular, and if she said that, people would start calling me a fag. So I did what she said.. But even with that, I simply don't consider myself a victim. Even though I was 11 years old, and she was 18-19 years old. I don't consider myself a victim.

It all started off with her "teaching me how to kiss" to get me ready for all the girls that would want to try. That quickly turned into touching, and her "examining" my junk to see if "my balls had dropped." That turned into this chick forcing me to go down on her until she came. And that eventually turned into hump sessions where I would essentially just grind into her, with some penetration but not always, until she came. It wasn't until I was older (13) and more conditioned that it turned "consensual," meaning that I wouldn't say no.

By the time I was 16, her and I were dating on the side. She would have guys and I would have girls, but when we were around each other, everyone knew we were a couple.

Now, here's the crazy part.

Everyone found out about this when I was 12 years old. Even my own mother found out some things; the chick was so ill she called and left this weird ass sexual message on the answering machine and everyone in my house heard it while she was calling. My brothers looked at me, my mom looked at me, my stepdad just put his head down like wtf have I gotten into... My mom was like "wtf did you do?" My brothers were like "wow.. ole girl up the way?" My older brother was kind of shocked and worried, but my oldest brother who was more streetwise was not only impressed, but encouraging.

So again, I don't consider myself a victim. My mom went over there and talked with her; and she told my mom, and they had the weirdest conversation I've ever heard. My mother banned me from going over there and threatened the girl; but I lost my best friend. After awhile, my oldest brother convinced my mother than no harm was done and I should be able to go over my friends house.. And so I did. And it started right back up...

But the quick point here is that, had I been female, all hell would've broken loose and either my mother or oldest brother would have shot the assailant - consensual or not. So there is a serious double standard here.

Anyway... When I was 14, my mother knew I was sexually active - not only with my best friends sister but with 2 other girls at school. She just begged me not to.

When I was 15-16, I was heavily drinking, living in my parents attic, beer cans, Paul Mason bottles. So long as I wasn't smoking crack, my mom was cool.. I felt bad because I'd come home from school to change for work (I worked full time since I was 15), and all of my beer cans, condom wrappers, jerkoff rags, would be cleaned up - my porn mags put away.

I was a shitty kid, and my mom didn't know what to do with me... It's not her fault. I was more than a handful... As a parent today, I have no idea how I would handle a kid like me. Ass whoopings stopped working, just made things worse, and all I wanted was out.

So I moved out.. After that, sex was a daily occurance. Recipe for sex: Find any girl at school (I was a junior at Heights High), ask them if they wanna hang out after school and I'll "drive" them home.. Leave school, hang out, change of plans - back to my place - flirt.. pull dick out.. talk.. pull dick back out.. oral sex -> sex. Wash, rinse, repeat. Day after day after day...

So yes, I have a different experience than most, and yes, I've been through worse things than what's described above, but.. my outlook is not that sexual predators don't exist. The girl that I was with as a young kid was a pedophile - a true sex predator. I only realized that when I realized I wasn't "special" and when I found out I wasn't the only one, I just happened to be the first one.

Not to be disparaging of you, but you seem to come from more of a point of view that everyone should be out there getting whatever they can because that's what you did. I never had that desire which doesn't at all make me better, just different. You also turned out fine, but that doesn't mean that everyone will when they have sex with older people.

I didn't turn out fine.. I have a lot of issues with monogamy. As in, every single day is a struggle to not think about sex. When I was in Hawaii, sex was my pastime. My wife knew this at the time, and now I'm gladly and faithfully married, but I have 3 kids from 2 different women and I'm constantly bouncing around just to spend time with my kids.

I'm okay now - but those times were turbulent. But knowing the lives that my mother and father had, mine is nothing in comparison.

My only point is that life needs to be experienced, and creating these kinds of laws don't prevent real predatory behavior, they seem to too often ensnare folks who are legitimately not trying to harm or and have no intent to harm someone.

You're right though that you are never going to stop teens from having sex because they are going to because their bodies tell them they want it. But I just think it's hard to give a blanket statement that all 16 and 17 year olds (or even 18, 19, and some early 20 year olds) are truly "ready" to have sex with anyone they want. It's equally as hard though to legislate what that proper age really is, and I fully agree with you that it is quite silly to act like anyone suddenly "gleans knowledge" when they turn 18.

I never speak in blanket statements. But I think the statistics show that considering a third of 14 year olds have had some form of sexual relations, it seems to be a very natural thing. It might not have been for you, but it was a nearly uncontrollable urge for me.

Either way, this is definitely a murky topic.

Definitely.
 
When I was 27 I flirted a few times with the female bartender at my local bar. After a few visits we exchanged numbers and started dating. She was a bartender so I knew she had to be 21 years of age. She told me that she was 21 and that she would soon be 22. After four months of dating we celebrated her 22nd birthday. That night she was crying and said she needed to tell me something. I'm thinking herpes, pregnant, cheated... She told me she was 17 and wouldn't be 18 for a few months. I broke up with her because of the lies but we ended up back together. We are now about to celebrate her 22nd for real and I just turned 32.
I never broke any laws because 16 is the age of consent in Ohio. A 50 year old can date and have sex with someone 16. I was never looking to date a teen and had no clue she wasn't 21. I have spent half my life in Arizona where the age of consent is 18. If this had happened there my life could have been ruined.
I believe that someone into children or prepubescent girls is sick and needs help\jail\death. In my case the girl illegally obtained a job and lied to me. The law should recognize situations like that.

You didnt break any laws as you had all expectations she was at least 19 (i think the legal age to bartend in Ohio)

The story that if a girl lies about her age and you still go to jail if you really had no way of knowing is just urban myth. It rarely happens.
 
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This is pretty classless even by the Post's standards.
 

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