Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Tornicade]

too bad the browns arent using a proven scheme that shows it can produce at a productive base level regardless of who or how long the players have been in the nfl


as far as targets goes. its a great number to show you who the qb is looking at and what percentages of those targets are turning into catches,

This offense is doing exactly what one would expect from a kyle shanahan offense.


The Cleveland Browns always will have a set of plays ready for Johnny Manziel to run, but whether they play him is decided during the game itself.
That's the word from offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who said of using Manziel for a few plays in a game the way the Browns did in Sunday's win over New Orleans: "It's something that's always an option."

Browns Team Offense Projections
Points Ranking Yards Ranking
352 21st 5845 11th
Average of past Shanahan offenses

PTS 24.7(11th)
YDS 362.7(13th)
PASS YDS 230.0(15th)
RUSH YDS 132.7(10th)

 

[The Oi]

Boobie just getting throttled in here.

 

[Tornicade]

boobie,

Who is better between Andy Hawkins and Brandon Marshall? And between Miles Austin and Alshon Jeffery?

Ill take the Browns offense over the Bears.. you have a running game and that gives ya options.

The Browns so far after 3 games are 10th in rushing yards.

also the browns are significantly better per attempt than the bears.

Browns have ran 90 times and passed 96.. thats excellent balance.

the bears 56 rushing attempts to 121 passing attempts.

Bears may be more "talented" but the Browns are more efficient with a balanced offense.

I also think some are completing under appreciating the improvement of the offensive line and the impact on the offense

 

[Kizzle]

Can we have Baby Hawk back. I miss seeing screens to him


Austin is all yours tho lol

 

[AZ_]

Now you are being intentionally thick.

AGAIN, Hoyer is doing more with less talent than most of the QB's in the NFL.

As Jigo said who would you rather have?

Ive never argued that I'd rather have Austin or Hawkins over either of those two.

Kyle Shanahan is doing more with less, and Hoyer is a byproduct of that. As are Austin and Hawkins for that matter.

To put all of this on Hoyer carrying them, and not give any credit to the weapons, is patently ridiculous.

Having watched these games, Hoyer always seems to be throwing to wide open receivers at all levels of the field. This isn't to denegrate what Hoyer is doing, he's staying within himself and moving the ball at times.

Great scheming so far.

To answer your question, I'd take all the QBs I mentioned earlier and all nine others on the list you just posted, I have yet to see you make an argument for why Hoyer is better than any of them.

To say he's a top 10 QB based on such a small sample size is ridiculous.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Ill take the Browns offense over the Bears.. you have a running game and that gives ya options.

The Browns so far after 3 games are 10th in rushing yards.

also the browns are significantly better per attempt than the bears.

Browns have ran 90 times and passed 96.. thats excellent balance.

the bears 56 rushing attempts to 121 passing attempts.

Bears may be more "talented" but the Browns are more efficient with a balanced offense.

I also think some are completing under appreciating the improvement of the offensive line and the impact on the offense

Are you really justifying taking the Browns' offense over the Bears' from a 3 game sample? The Bears have faced the Jets, 49ers, and the Bills so far- that's 2 of the top 11 defenses in DVOA (NYJ & BUF) with the third being the Niners- a talented defense only a year removed from being a top-3 defensive team. The Browns have faced the Ravens (15), Steelers (25), and the Saints (31) so far, a much friendlier schedule for any offense.

I think you're overestimating the improvement of the offensive line, they're good and a massive improvement over what the Bears are trotting out right now (especially without Slauson) but the NFL is decided by the passing game. The difference in talent at the skill positions between the Bears and the Browns right now is enormous, have you seen Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey play before? IMO they're both as talented as Josh Gordon. Matt Forte is one of the best running backs in the NFL, and despite all the critics Jay Cutler is tied for the second most TD passes with Peyton Manning right now.

On a side note, the Browns won't face a top-13 defense by DVOA until they face Cincinnati Week 10- it's week after week of creampuff defenses coming up after the bye!

 

[Randolphkeys]

There is nothing "patently ridiculous" about posters repeatedly making great points that b00bie and Torn dodge like Oliver North in front of a special Congressional hearing. In a debate, that would be called silently conceding the point to the Affirmative.

I think we are arriving to the time where we can walk away from the QB threads and start examining everything else that is going on with this team. And that makes me happy.

 

[JSS2306]

To say he's a top 10 QB based on such a small sample size is ridiculous.

It's the only sample size...

 

[Maximus]

To answer your question, I'd take all the QBs I mentioned earlier and all nine others on the list you just posted

To answer my question??? WTF??? How in the name of Obama do you think that you even remotely answered my question?

Of these QB's, who are the top 3 QB's who had the least overall talent to work with in the first 3 games?

1 Russell Wilson, QB SEA 60 87 69.0 651 7.48 39 6 1 6 108.9
2 Peyton Manning, QB DEN 74 111 66.7 814 7.33 48 8 1 3 108.5
3 Philip Rivers, QB SD 67 98 68.4 778 7.94 49 6 1 2 108.3
4 Kirk Cousins, QB WSH 52 81 64.2 677 8.36 81 5 1 2 105.8
5 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 76 111 68.5 965 8.69 54 7 3 4 105.1
6 Andrew Luck, QB IND 86 126 68.3 912 7.24 41 9 3 5 103.0
7 Cam Newton, QB CAR 46 69 66.7 531 7.70 37 2 0 7 99.4
8 Drew Brees, QB NO 83 117 70.9 863 7.38 57 5 2 3 99.1
9 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 80 121 66.1 750 6.20 44 8 2 7 98.2
10 Brian Hoyer, QB CLE 61 95 64.2 716 7.54 70 3 0 5 97.5

 

[AZ_]

To answer my question??? WTF??? How in the name of Obama do you think that you even remotely answered my question?

I don't need to see their weapons to know they're better QBs.

 

[The Oi]

Boobie has now been throttled and left lying on the side of the highway.

His body has been picked back up by a passer-by, intentions thus far unknown.

 

[Tornicade]

Are you really justifying taking the Browns' offense over the Bears' from a 3 game sample? The Bears have faced the Jets, 49ers, and the Bills so far- that's 2 of the top 11 defenses in DVOA (NYJ & BUF) with the third being the Niners- a talented defense only a year removed from being a top-3 defensive team. The Browns have faced the Ravens (15), Steelers (25), and the Saints (31) so far, a much friendlier schedule for any offense.

I think you're overestimating the improvement of the offensive line, they're good and a massive improvement over what the Bears are trotting out right now (especially without Slauson) but the NFL is decided by the passing game. The difference in talent at the skill positions between the Bears and the Browns right now is enormous, have you seen Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey play before? IMO they're both as talented as Josh Gordon. Matt Forte is one of the best running backs in the NFL, and despite all the critics Jay Cutler is tied for the second most TD passes with Peyton Manning right now.

On a side note, the Browns won't face a top-13 defense by DVOA until they face Cincinnati Week 10- it's week after week of creampuff defenses coming up after the bye!

all 4 of the conference final teams were top 10 in rushing yards last season.

meanwhile 2 of the 4 were in the bottom 10 in passing yards.

The bears scored 445 points last season, The Cowboys 439 both were 8-8 and didnt even make the playoffs.

the team with the best wide receiver production wise didnt even win more than 5 games

would you take thomas and decker over alshon and marshall? I wouldnt but they became an inept receiving core to an elite one just switching out tebow for Manning. of course thats an extreme example.

Browns are offsetting their limitations rather effectively with Terence West and Isiah Crowell. West is one of 10 back to get over 200 yards on the ground at this point in the season.

but lets say that marshall and Jeffrey are on this Browns roster... at that point doesnt the expectations of Hoyer to produce increase and does he meet those expectations.

does Hoyer suddenly become a 68% passer with 4 thousand yards? I dont think he does.
nor would i expect Shanahan to abandon the run.

just look at last season stats for comparison. with Gordon and Cameron HOyer was passing under 60% and less than a yard per attempt.

Romo for example doesnt need a running game to be an accurate passer. the cowboys though do need a running game to win games.

Hoyer though does need a running game to be accurate and thats a limitation

im not so sure if a team comes out and stops the running game that Hoyer is gonna produce or be able to open up the run game even if you trot out jeffries and marshall. this is why at some point the Browns will have to see what Manziel offers

 

[SixPACK]

I just love how when you want to find a Browns QB stats, you don't have to use the mouse wheel about 3-4x to find him.

Big thing as well is no INT's. I will give one thing to b00b, our WR's seem to be getting open a good amount. You can argue that you would take more TD passes and a couple INT's, but the Browns have been about rushing/passing equally. I want Hoyer to throw more than 1 TD/gm but if he can limit turnovers and let the WR's/RB's make the plays, I will be one happy camper. I know b00b, you shouldn't settle unless you have a franchise QB calling the plays, but how many are there right now? Young, franchise QBs?

Another stat that had me baffled is he is tied for 2nd w/ 3 40+ yd pass plays. If you thought that would happen without Gordon, you are crazy.

Besides the 4000yds Rodgers put up his 1st season as a starter, I do not see why he can not match/do better than his other stat lines (28TD, 13INT, 63.6comp%, 66.5 QBR, 93 TPR) I am not comparing him right now to Rodgers. All we can ask for his growth and continued progress, if that happens, who knows what type of player he will turn out to be. He seems to be a hard worker, so I am sure he will put in the time/training to keep this starting job.

 

[AZ_]

Another stat that had me baffled is he is tied for 2nd w/ 3 40+ yd pass plays. If you thought that would happen without Gordon, you are crazy.

Travis Benjamin and Taylor Gabriel have serious speed.

 

[SixPACK]

Travis Benjamin and Taylor Gabriel have serious speed.

yeah, but it's Travis Benjamin and Taylor Gabriel.