Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Chris]

I don't have much to say in regards to your snide, facetious strawman arguments about not being able to function and spontaneous combustion.

Who the fuck is making a strawman? I'm a Manziel fan and supporter and want to see the guy play. I think he can handle at least being put in the starter position right now without looking like a total flop, which is a step above what Hoyer is doing. Are you under the impression I'm ripping Manziel? Goodness. I'm addressing the people who think putting the guy in is forfeiting the season, giving up on the season, blah blah blah whatever.

 

[AZ_]

You asked for a qb that had success with similar years in college. I named one, so there you go. You did not say that has the same skill set as johnny.

Well no, you gave me a guy who had success later in his career while baselessly attributing that to the two games he started as a rookie.

 

[AZ_]

Who the fuck is making a strawman? I'm a Manziel fan and supporter and want to see the guy play. I think he can handle at least being put in the starter position right now without looking like a total flop, which is a step above what Hoyer is doing. Are you under the impression I'm ripping Manziel? Goodness. I'm addressing the people who think putting the guy in is forfeiting the season, giving up on the season, blah blah blah whatever.

Nobody is arguing that he won't be able to function (your strawman), but it's evident at this point that they will only go to him with the playoffs out of reach (aka forfeiting the season).

Which is the correct call, IMO. I think it's obvious they don't have enough faith in him to run the offense how they want or get the most out of the guys on the field.

Otherwise he'd be in there.

 

[The Oi]

Thread so gay now.

 

[MalTalm]

There's only one way to solve the "Who should start"question: We need a coin flip.

 

[Chris]

Nobody is arguing that he won't be able to function (your strawman), but it's evident at this point that they will only go to him with the playoffs out of reach (aka forfeiting the season).

Which is the correct call, IMO. I think it's obvious they don't have enough faith in him to run the offense how they want or get the most out of the guys on the field.

Otherwise he'd be in there.

Um, yes, some people are. I'm not simply referring to people within this thread (although I'm sure there are some in here. I've only been skimming because as Jigo said, this thread is super "gay")- realize that there are more Browns fans than the couple dozen on RCF. I know you don't listen to sports radio, but sometimes 850 entertains me and I made the mistake of listening to Cherry all morning and literally found myself wanting to slam his head into a wall after about an hour.

Anyways, if the guy can't be better than Hoyer, then it's very clear he just sucks. Hoyer has been one of the worst QB in the league the last few weeks. Manziel would be worse, you say? Then yikes. Better start getting ready to trade up and draft my boy then.

 

[Soda]

Anyways, if the guy can't be better than Hoyer, then it's very clear he just sucks. Hoyer has been one of the worst QB in the league the last few weeks. Manziel would be worse, you say? Then yikes.

My biggest fear is that Johnny is, in fact, that bad right now...

Better start getting ready to trade up and draft my boy then.

Something you both can agree upon today!

 

[AZ_]

Which Hoyer would he be worse than?

I don't think he'd be worse than Hoyer over the last four weeks, but I don't think he's nearly going to be as good as the Hoyer from the first half of this season.

And I think it's mildly retarded to say that even if he WAS that bad over the first three starts of his career that it warrants trying again with another rookie QB.

He's 22. That's younger than each QB to start in the SEC and B1G Championship games this past weekend.

 

[Chris]

Which Hoyer would he be worse than?

I don't think he'd be worse than Hoyer over the last four weeks, but I don't think he's nearly going to be as good as the Hoyer from the first half of this season.

Valid. But Hoyer has been trending this way for a while. So starting the raw rookie is a slightly tougher sell than the guy who has maybe a very small chance of turning his game around. Great to have options as Browns fan....

I've been saying Hoyer is average or below average pretty much from the beginning, as I know you have too. I wasn't going to bitch about him when he was winning games though, but I was just waiting for this moment to come. Ready to wash my hands of him. Forgive me if I don't feel like watching Brian Hoyer next Sunday.

 

[Chris]

My biggest fear is that Johnny is, in fact, that bad right now...



Something you both can agree upon today!

Again- if he's really THAT bad right now, there are problems. I don't think we're being clear enough on how bad we're talking about. We're talking about a guy who has defensive players outscoring him for the past few weeks.

 

[Soda]

Again- if he's really THAT bad right now, there are problems. I don't think we're being clear enough on how bad we're talking about. We're talking about a guy who has defensive players outscoring him for the past few weeks.

Oh, I'm clear... I'll be the first person to say that you shouldn't make noise if the guy is winning. Issue is he's becoming the reason the Browns don't win and it's becoming more and more obvious. If he gets another shot against the Bengals, I'll be livid. Hoyer has been that bad over the past two weeks, IMO. Johnny has to be a special kind of shitty to not deserve to play at this juncture.

 

[The Voice]

Well no, you gave me a guy who had success later in his career while baselessly attributing that to the two games he started as a rookie.

He started two games and came out the next year successful. Thanks for playing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk at your local pub.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

No I'm just not gullible enough to believe coach speak. Do you honestly think he would publicly say oh no he isn't ready and then have to immediately backtrack is he was forced to play Johnny. That is what we call backing youself into a corner

First, if there's one thing Pettine hasn't been guilty of, it's "coach speak". He's been the most straightforward guy we've had since Marty. Further, the level of detail he gave "been discussing it since week 8", "he's been ready for awhile" goes well beyond the minimalistic stuff you get with "coach-speak". "Coach-speak" would have been something like "well, you don't know how ready he is until he actually gets in there", or "the situation made it a good time to take a risk", or something similar.

Second, unless you have inside information to the contrary -- like a direct order from Jimmy H. -- Pettine wasn't "forced" to play Manziel against Buffalo, and I think most people were surprised that he did. He chose to play him, and you've already said he'd be a fool to throw someone in who was not ready. Therefore, in Pettine's mind at least, he was "ready".

Which all goes back to the point that this is not, and has not been, about whether Manziel is "ready". It has always been about Hoyer's performance, and whether or not it warranted continuing to play him.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You asked for a qb that had success with similar years in college. I named one, so there you go. You did not say that has the same skill set as johnny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk at your local pub.

For the love of God, please stop. You've said absolutely nothing to refute that QBs with limited starting experience in college rarely see any significant success at the NFL their first year.

The only QB I can think of that had an iota of immediate success with as few college starts as Johnny is Mark Sanchez, who had the Jets in the playoffs his rookie year and led a couple upsets once there (most notably over the Pats in Foxboro).

His numbers on the year were terrible though- 53.8% completion %, 2444 PaYds, 15 TDs, 20 INTs (10 fumbles). Anyone that remembers that team attributes its success to a dominant defense anchored by two future HOFers in John Abraham and Darrelle Revis, not their middling rookie QB.

 

[Randolphkeys]

We're taking pre-season stats seriously now.

Lord help us.

So you would prefer that when I agree with your assessment of Manziel, I don't attempt to use actual evidence?

Look B00bie, you and I have been consistent in where we think Manziel needs development since this time last year, way before the Browns drafted him. He needs a lot of work. I'm going to continue to use evidence of that, even if that means looking back to preseason, because I write above the elementary school level.

And let's watch it with the "gay" and "retarded" stuff, gents. I know, its Monday after a brutal loss... but let's have a real discussion.