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Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

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And let's watch it with the "gay" and "retarded" stuff, gents. I know, its Monday after a brutal loss... but let's have a real discussion.

Next thing, we'll be asked to stop referring to each other as "guys" or "man"... Liberal America... :chuckle:

I kid. I kid.
 
So you would prefer that when I agree with your assessment of Manziel, I don't attempt to use actual evidence?

Look B00bie, you and I have been consistent in where we think Manziel needs development since this time last year, way before the Browns drafted him. He needs a lot of work. I'm going to continue to use evidence of that, even if that means looking back to preseason, because I write above the elementary school level.

And let's watch it with the "gay" and "retarded" stuff, gents. I know, its Monday after a brutal loss... but let's have a real discussion.

Preseason stats have proven to be anything BUT evidence.

Given that Manziel had better pre-season stats than Hoyer, I don't exactly know what your overall point would be here.
 
I agree with the posters saying that this isn't about Johnny's preparedness, but is about Hoyer getting his last shot and truly deserving to be replaced. Not many starting QBs on 7-5 teams in a playoff hunt have been replaced at QB by rookies in the history of the NFL. Now we're on the verge of completely dropping out of the race, said QB hasn't performed even close to NFL standards for a month now, has 8 INTs since his last TD... Pettine can safely make the move now without offending anyone at all. I dont think it has a single solitary thing to do with whether Johnny is ready or not. And I believe he is.
 
Pettine can safely make the move now without offending anyone at all. I dont think it has a single solitary thing to do with whether Johnny is ready or not. And I believe he is.

I couldn't agree more. He's either going to start Johnny and everyone will understand why (almost everyone), or he's going to stick with Hoyer and probably continue to watch him regress...

I just can't help but think that Johnny is flat-out blowing this opportunity.
 
Preseason stats have proven to be anything BUT evidence.

Given that Manziel had better pre-season stats than Hoyer, I don't exactly know what your overall point would be here.

The book coming out of preseason was that Manziel will play hero ball and you can force him to run to the sideline for minimal gain (if any) if you get heat in the pocket and cover his first two options. The point was that he needed to make reads before the snap and as the play developed rather than getting happy feet. There was a time Hoyer did that well... really, it did happen at one point.
 
I couldn't agree more. He's either going to start Johnny and everyone will understand why (almost everyone), or he's going to stick with Hoyer and probably continue to watch him regress...

I just can't help but think that Johnny is flat-out blowing this opportunity.

This is pretty much the definition of an outside baseless claim... What opportunity has he blown when he hasn't even played yet?
 
This is pretty much the definition of an outside baseless claim... What opportunity has he blown when he hasn't even played yet?

The insinuation that he doesn't do everything right off the field isn't exactly an off-the-wall assumption.

Wouldn't shock most of us, but to this point I agree is rather unfounded.
 
This is pretty much the definition of an outside baseless claim... What opportunity has he blown when he hasn't even played yet?

I didn't claim shit, boss. It's my thoughts.

Hoyer has been terrible, yet Manziel still isn't named the starter. That tells me everything other than Johnny is ready. I have a suspicion that he's not near ready, it's not a claim.
 
The insinuation that he doesn't do everything right off the field isn't exactly an off-the-wall assumption.

Wouldn't shock most of us, but to this point I agree is rather unfounded.

Right... but the whole "He went to the cavs game on wednesday" controversy is just so absolutely ridiculous in my mind... he lives downtown. Nothing wrong with hopping over to the Q and catching a game... hell, Haden was praised for doing it his first two years.
 
I didn't claim shit, boss. It's my thoughts.

Hoyer has been terrible, yet Manziel still isn't named the starter. That tells me everything other than Johnny is ready. I have a suspicion that he's not near ready, it's not a claim.

I understand that, but wasn't it generally accepted that the decision last week was, "Hoyer got us here, lets give him a shot to get his shit together" and not "Johnny is absolutely not ready, so Hoyer is our only option?"
 
I understand that, but wasn't it generally accepted that the decision last week was, "Hoyer got us here, lets give him a shot to get his shit together" and not "Johnny is absolutely not ready, so Hoyer is our only option?"

Yeah. After consecutive losses for the first time this season with Hoyer regressing, I see it as a slight indictment on Johnny's preparedness if they trot out Hoyer again next week.

My fear, as I should have put it, is that Johnny is just really not ready.. He should probably be ready. The longer you go with Hoyer playing poorly, the more and more it begins to point towards "Johnny is absolutely not ready".. Baseless or not, it's just how I see the smoke bellowing.
 
Yeah. After consecutive losses for the first time this season with Hoyer regressing, I see it as a slight indictment on Johnny's preparedness if they trot out Hoyer again next week.

My fear, as I should have put it, is that Johnny is just really not ready.. He should probably be ready. The longer you go with Hoyer playing poorly, the more and more it begins to point towards "Johnny is absolutely not ready".. Baseless or not, it's just how I see the smoke bellowing.
A young, inexperienced QB with questionable mechanics and decision making coming out of college a year ago should probably be ready by now?

Regardless of how anyone feels about Hoyer, credit Pettine and his staff for being patient with Manziel and giving him the best chance to succeed. The best thing Manziel could get was a year or two on the bench learning how to play in the NFL, refining his mechanics and getting up to game speed. People need to remember that an NFL QB puts in more work days than just Sundays... It's not like Manziel isn't getting time to learn and improve because he's not taking snaps under center.

Him not being ready to go yet isn't condemnation of Manziel, it's likely just the reality of where he is in his development cycle. No need to rush it.
 
It's this let him learn while he plays mentality that has led us to destroy so many young quarterbacks since 1999.

And which young quarterbacks were those? Let's go to our favorite list:

Couch
Detmer
Wynn
Pederson
Holcomb
McCown
Garcia
Dilfer
Frye
Dorsey
Gradkowski
Anderson
Quinn
Delhomme
Wallace
McCoy
Lewis
Weeden
Campbell
Hoyer

Which of those again was young and ruined by playing early?

Tim Couch, who is IMO the best quarterback we've had since 1999, was 'ruined' because the team around him was a dumpster fire. Not because he played right away.

And before you say Brady Quinn, know that he sat his entire rookie year of 2007 until the final game, mid-game when DA got hurt. Lot of good that did him.

The problem with our quarterbacks in the past is that they have lacked talent, not that they've been thrown into the fire.
 
A young, inexperienced QB with questionable mechanics and decision making coming out of college a year ago should probably be ready by now?

He should be ready to spell a guy who's last four stat-lines have been:
- 20/50, 330 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
- 23/40, 322 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INT
- 18/30, 192 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INT
- 14/31, 140 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INT

Hoyer has thrown more TDs than INTs in 1 game since the Browns won vs. Pittsburgh. It was against Oakland where he had 1 TD and 0 INT.

Johnny has got to be ready enough to out-pace that. If he's not, I worry a little bit.
 
And which young quarterbacks were those? Let's go to our favorite list:

Couch
Detmer
Wynn
Pederson
Holcomb
McCown
Garcia
Dilfer
Frye
Dorsey
Gradkowski
Anderson
Quinn
Delhomme
Wallace
McCoy
Lewis
Weeden
Campbell
Hoyer

Which of those again was young and ruined by playing early?

Tim Couch, who is IMO the best quarterback we've had since 1999, was 'ruined' because the team around him was a dumpster fire. Not because he played right away.

And before you say Brady Quinn, know that he sat his entire rookie year of 2007 until the final game, mid-game when DA got hurt. Lot of good that did him.

The problem with our quarterbacks in the past is that they have lacked talent, not that they've been thrown into the fire.

Couch and McCoy Id say would have benefited from sitting. Lack of talent only magnifies a rookies flaws even more.

Problem is most quarterbacks who had to play right away and play well are four year starters in college and start on a team that has way more talent than the Browns currently have.


On a side note, having to read that list was extremely depressing.


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