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Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

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Johnny really was worse than Hoyer.

So, Mike Pettine is looking smarter and smarter for sticking with Hoyer this long.

I didn't think it could be much worse, but it really was.

To be honest though... this gives me faith in the FO. They stuck with the guy (Hoyer) they believed in until he played himself out of the position. They didnt give in to media pressure and made the switch only when it was inevitable.

To be honest, this game gives me more faith in the Browns than I have had in a while. At least I feel like the coaching staff can player evaluate better than the previous ones.
 
To be honest though... this gives me faith in the FO. They stuck with the guy (Hoyer) they believed in until he played himself out of the position. They didnt give in to media pressure and made the switch only when it was inevitable.

To be honest, this game gives me more faith in the Browns than I have had in a while. At least I feel like the coaching staff can player evaluate better than the previous ones.

It also proves, that the front office, coaching, and players clearly know better than the fans. I gotta give Keys a lot of credit, because he kept referencing this in the Hoyer thread.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't me saying that Manziel is going to be horrible. And that Hoyer clearly didn't play himself out of the lineup.

But we got their reasons why pretty clearly today, that they were so willing to stay with Hoyer as long as they did.

Manziel, obviously, isn't ready to be a productive starter yet. But, you definitely stick with him now.

It was still the right call to turn to him now. They handled this pretty well.
 
It was still the right call to turn to him now. They handled this pretty well.

Well... it obviously wasn't the right call to turn to him now because we don't know what could have been with Hoyer and we could be still talking playoffs.

Hoyer played himself out of the line up. The coaching staff had no other choice. In the end, it was not the right time to throw Johnny in because he ended up playing more poorly than Hoyer had all season.

That's a statistical fact.
 
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Johnny really was worse than Hoyer.

So, Mike Pettine is looking smarter and smarter for sticking with Hoyer this long.

I didn't think it could be much worse, but it really was.

What in the world ever make you think that it couldn't get worse than Brian Hoyer?
We've watched 19 other QBs fail, most worse than Hoyer themselves. Do you think it was all the defense keeping us in games? QBs can lose you games, as Brian has shown us. QBs can also eliminate your chances of winning, which is what Manziel did today. We were in games with Brian. He could at least sustain a drive part of the time. Johnny wasn't capable of it today. It's his first game, but it's looking like he isn't ready.
 
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What in the world ever make you think that it couldn't get worse than Brian Hoyer?
We've watched 19 other QBs fail, most worse than Hoyer themselves. Do you think it was all the defense keeping us in games? QBs can lose you games, as Brian has shown us. QBs can also eliminate your chances of winning, which is what Manziel did today. We were in games with Brian. He could at least sustain a drive part of the time. Johnny wasn't capable of it today. It's his first game, but it's looking like he stinks.


I was just speaking more of what Hoyer did lately, not overall.

Hoyer was playing some really good football to start the season for us.
 
A lot of people have their doubts about Manziel. And rightly so.

But let's remember. This coaching staff did everything in it's power to hold Manziel off until next season. Speculations remains on who was responsible for the Manziel pick (Haslam or Farmer)... but one thing was very evident. The coaching staff identified that Manziel was far from ready. This isn't saying that Manziel can't improve. But it appears that the coaching staff is at least competent in identifying player talent.

Going forward that should be a good plus. Hopefully it translates. I am rather confident.
 
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Well... it obviously wasn't the right call to turn to him now because we don't know what could have been with Hoyer and we could be still talking playoffs.

Hoyer played himself out of the line up. The coaching staff had no other choice. In the end, it was not the right time to throw Johnny in because he ended up playing more poorly than Hoyer had all season.

That's a statistical fact.

It was nearly impossible to justify sticking with Hoyer (and I like him) with how terrible he's been playing lately.

There's no way, anyone, can seriously tell me they're confident we would have won the game with Hoyer either. Not the Hoyer we've seen recently!

Very few people, like myself, seriously saw this as going to Manziel, was a move in trying to fix everything that was going wrong. This was clearly a default move that had to be made.

People aren't living in reality, if they really thought Manziel was going to go in and save the day.

But yeah, I don't think some of us imagine it being much worse either. But it's really silly to look back in hindsight, with how bad Hoyer has been struggling, to truly believe the result would have been better, resulting in a win with him today.

There was nothing to lose going to Johnny at this point. Nothing at all. That doesn't change just because Johnny completely bombed today.

Brian Hoyer was showing no signs, at all, of being able to get it done lately. The way the game went today, the result would have still been the same, and that's a loss. Whether he would have scored, or not, who really cares. We still got our asses kicked, it's all the same.
 
A lot of people have their doubts about Manziel. And rightly so.

But let's remember. This coaching staff did everything in it's power to hold Manziel off until next season. Speculations remains on who was responsible for the Manziel pick (Haslam or Farmer)... but one thing was very evident. The coaching staff identified that Manziel was far from ready. This isn't saying that Manziel can't improve. But it appears that the coaching staff is at least competent in identifying player talent.

Going forward that should be a good plus. Hopefully it translates. I am rather confident.
I think it's cute that you think this coaching staff survives until next year with Harbaugh on the market, the finish they are headed towards (a total collapse), and how the owner's/GM's pick has not been played. If Haslam finds his splashy pick for coach he is going to make it.
 
@Soda,

How we feeling about my prediction they'd only win 1 out of their last five games?
 
Tom Savage was 10-for-19 for 127 yards and an INT today.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Seriously though, Manziel was horrendous. Like other worldly terrible.

Everything myself and a few others echoed throughout the draft talk and preseason turned out to be a real problem.

Not enough arm strength to overcome his poor mechanics, the inability to read defenses, speed equality in the NFL, decision making.

Impossible to write him off, solely because of his age and the faith I have in Kyle Shanahan, but what you saw today didn't appear to be a mirage from what his skill-set is.

And props to Manziel for owning every bit of it.
 
But yeah, I don't think some of us imagine it being much worse either. But it's really silly to look back in hindsight, with how bad Hoyer has been struggling, to truly believe the result would have been better, resulting in a win with him today.

It's not silly to look back in hindsight if you're a coach of the Cleveland Brown's and you are feeling pressure from the top down to put your first round QB in at a time when it is crucial we win out.

It's apparent now, in hindsight as a fan, to see why Pettine didn't throw Johnny in much earlier when Hoyer started stinking up the joint. I believe he knows that Johnny is nowhere near ready to perform.

At the end of the day, we were still in the playoff hunt before today and just when we thought it couldn't get any worse it got much worse and Johnny played a large part in that.
 
Let's also have some perspective. Johnny completely shitted the bed, no doubt, but the game was already starting to get away from us before Johnny had any imprint on the game at all.

I think its absurd to really put all the blame on a rookie QB, even though he clearly was awful today.

There's no way, anyone can think Hoyer would have won us this game today, the way he's squandered leads lately. Games when our defense had been playing great, and he'd still lose for us.

When we were already down 0-17, that wasn't the result of Johnny. A rookie, in his first start, is supposed to overcome that?

The entire team just flat out sucked today. Johnny was horrible, but we did nothing at all to make it easier for him.


It's not silly to look back in hindsight if you're a coach of the Cleveland Brown's and you are feeling pressure from the top down to put your first round QB in at a time when it is crucial we win out.

It's apparent now, in hindsight as a fan, to see why Pettine didn't throw Johnny in much earlier when Hoyer started stinking up the joint. I believe he knows that Johnny is nowhere near ready to perform.

At the end of the day, we were still in the playoff hunt before today and just when we thought it couldn't get any worse it got much worse and Johnny played a large part in that.
 
Tom Savage was 10-for-19 for 127 yards and an INT today.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Seriously though, Manziel was horrendous. Like other worldly terrible.

Everything myself and a few others echoed throughout the draft talk and preseason turned out to be a real problem.

Not enough arm strength to overcome his poor mechanics, the inability to read defenses, speed equality in the NFL, decision making.

Impossible to write him off, solely because of his age and the faith I have in Kyle Shanahan, but what you saw today didn't appear to be a mirage from what his skill-set is.

AZ,

Did you notice the lack of QB draws? I felt like there were a few occasions that were perfect for Shanahan to make use of Johnny's wheels. And the resulting defensive look illustrated a QB draw would have likely gained significant yardage.

The supposed benefit of playing Johnny is to give you that option. The lack of it's use suggests that the coaching staff was confident that it wouldn't be effictive. I'm surprised it wasn't even utilized though.
 

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