Just as Bad as the Record Indicates

[Dshuks]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

bright spots on our team, Kyrie, Gee, maybe Waiters, Zeller, TT, Andy.

We have to take that and make it great.

But we are bad as our record says. Iv never cheered for a team with so little depth and talent as this one in any sport

Wait so you have Waiters a maybe, but are entirely sure Zeller is a bright spot?
That makes no sense Waiters has shown much more than Zeller has.

 

[UDcleveland]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

For additional support for the "we are not as far away as you think" theory, look no further than golden state. They built around Curry, Thompson and Lee, had 23 wins last year, but had a huge trade piece in Monta, several picks in the draft and some cap room to play with. Less than a year later they are 21-10 and that's with zero production out of bogut and Jefferson who were the net return on Monta. If we hit on the varejao trade and a key free agent or two, there's no reason why we can't be in a similar spot at this time next year, especially in the shitty conference we play in.

 

[rabman_gold]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Stark, we really shouldn't try to use simply our eyes and pretty game recaps to describe why we're than our record. If we want to do that, we need to get down and muddy with good ol' fashioned numbers.

As of December 30th, 2012 at around 8:30 PM.

We are the second worst team in the league with a 22% winning record. That would be 7 wins and 25 losses with 32 games total in an 82 game season. Mostly, not everyone is on even footing nor is everyone evened out with injuries and the like.

Yet our points per game are ranked 24th with 94 and our opponent's points per game are ranked 21st with 99.4. But since our pace is 18th with 91.5 possessions per 48 minutes, our offensive and defensive ratings are 26th and 25th respectively (102 and 108). Statistically then, we're expected to win 10 games and lose 22. So we under-perform due to the garbage roster Grant handed Scott and Scott actually got them to play quite hard. In Offensive Rating, only 5 guys were better than the regular team amount (Miles is tied in amount). In Defensive Rating, only 4 are better than the amount (Gee and Zeller are tied at the amount). Offensively is Kyrie and Boobie. Defensively is only Luke Walton. The only three players who are good at both are Andy, Tristan, and Omri (who barely plays anyways and would lose his numbers from getting out on the court). 3 of those guys started more than 20 games.

Another reason for the bad slip ups: Only 4 guys with more than 3 years of experience. Basically, we aren't even trying to win right now with what we have and we still have moved forward. It's only natural. Only 2 guys started 30+ games. 13 guys have more than 10 games played and 10+ minutes played per game (100 minutes played).

It's a young team that's begging to become better. That's how you show a team that's not as bad as its record.

 

[HoytClagwell]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

If 2010-2011 was a complete waste then it was only because Chris Grant wasted it. We have 4 players left from that team, and likely to drop as low as 1 by the deadline.

Well, that season did have the Mo Williams trade...

 

[The Process God]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

The 2010-2011 season was hardly a waste. It got us the 4th pick in the draft, and it also got us another year closer to getting rid of some contracts we didn't want like Jamison's. It also was a year of trade opportunities, of which we clearly took advantage, having gained Kyrie through the Baron Davis trade. That trade essentially made up for the 1980 trade with the Lakers that eventually led to the Lakers drafting James Worthy in 1982. For all intents and purposes, we gave up no assets in order to acquire Kyrie since we were unlikely to have kept Mo anyway. Huge, huge trade that will probably go down as one of the most lopsided trades (in terms of how much each team benefited from the trade in the end) along with trades like the Lakers' trade for Kobe.

 

[Futuredome]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

To many young guys with holes in their games: Irving's defense, Waiters scoring consistancy, Tristin's post game, Zeller's defense amid explosions on offense at times........and on and on.

That is what you get with a bunch of 20-22 year olds. Pain at the court. Even worse than pain at the pump......It is why Scott doesn't get overly mad, especially when another all-star potential prospect may be coming........sorta makes him forget filling up the tank in his sports car.

 

[Jon]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Well, that season did have the Mo Williams trade...

Yes, and we also acquired Ramon Sessions that we eventually flipped to help get Zeller. That's why I used the word "if". 2010-2011 actually wasn't a "complete waste". Grant did make some moves that helped set us up for the future, unfortunately few of the young players he signed, traded for, or inherited that season have accounted for much.

Hits: Alzono Gee

Misses: Danny Green, Sebastian Telfair, Semih Erden, Joey Graham, Luke Harangody, Ryan Hollins, Leon Powe, Samardo Samuels, Jawad Williams, Manny Harris, Christian Eyenga

Not much use to us going forward, but at least got us something in trade: JJ Hickson, Ramon Sessions

 

[HoytClagwell]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Yeah, but I don't think anyone realistically expected great things out of any of those undrafted FA's, 2nd rounders and castoffs. They were all low-risk gambles that helped guarantee a high lottery pick. More importantly Grant kept flexibility and avoided making any crippling trades for good but not great players with massive contracts (other than Baron Davis, but the amnesty clause was likely anticipated). Given how ill prepared and void of assets the organization was starting rebuild I think we did quite well in 10-11.

 

[Kizzle]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Wait so you have Waiters a maybe, but are entirely sure Zeller is a bright spot?
That makes no sense Waiters has shown much more than Zeller has.

The maybe was actually just to add more people on the list. My grammer is not very proper at all. Iv been told I add extra words for no reason in my writing. For the record I think all those guys are bright spots not just Kyrie and MAYBE the others. All of them are.

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

We are essentially in year 2 of our rebuild...

The rebuild started the day LeBron left. This is year 3.

 

[Chris]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

The rebuilt started the day LeBron left. This is year 3.

That's not a great way to look at it because there isn't any "building" of a team during that first year and there wouldn't be until the following offseason. But technically, you are right.

 

[DraftPick]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Yes, and we also acquired Ramon Sessions that we eventually flipped to help get Zeller. That's why I used the word "if". 2010-2011 actually wasn't a "complete waste". Grant did make some moves that helped set us up for the future, unfortunately few of the young players he signed, traded for, or inherited that season have accounted for much.

Hits: Alzono Gee

Misses: Danny Green, Sebastian Telfair, Semih Erden, Joey Graham, Luke Harangody, Ryan Hollins, Leon Powe, Samardo Samuels, Jawad Williams, Manny Harris, Christian Eyenga

Not much use to us going forward, but at least got us something in trade: JJ Hickson, Ramon Sessions

Telfair,Powe, Williams, and Eyenga were all Ferry pick ups. And of those other names the giant mistake is Danny Green. But he's a 'nice' player. Nothing special you can't find. And I don't think all those players were taken in to win games. They were bodies to fill out the roster. Grant truly understands that you have to be really bad before you are good.

The rebuilt started the day LeBron left. This is year 3.

I'm talking from a player development standpoint. Yes we acquired a great amount of assets that year. But as far as developing talent that will help us get to where we want to be, we didn't have have anyone besides Gee for a few games.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

The rebuild, not rebuilt, started the day we acquired Baron Davis. Everyone seems to forget that we gave up our 2010 draft pick to help acquire another cog to win a championship. Then LBJ held us hostage through a week of free agency, that prevented us from making any moves. That goes without saying our roster needed an overhaul due to it being built around him. We had zero assets, and had no way of rebuilding until we acquired that pick. This is year 2 of the rebuild, if you think otherwise you do not understand the concept. There are contenders, pretenders, rebuilders, and perennial bottom feeders. That year after lebron was purgatory. We had no direction and no immediate way to improve. Had we counted that as year 1 we would have been destined for the treadmill of mediocrity and been without Kyrie.

 

[KI4MVP]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

The beginning of the rebuild:

July 10, 2010
Cleveland signed forward LeBron James and traded him to Miami for two future first-round draft picks and two future second-round draft picks.

we also then told both Shaq and Z that we weren't signing them for the season, thus let go both of our centers

Monday, July 26 - the 4th key player from the prior season was sent out:
Minnesota traded guard Ramon Sessions and forward Ryan Hollins and a future second-round pick to Cleveland for guards Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair

Feb 24: 5th key player gone, as well as another rotation player
Cleveland traded guard Mo Williams and forward Jamario Moon to the L.A. Clippers for guard Baron Davis and a 2011 first-round draft pick. Waived forward Leon Powe.

After this trade all that was left were Andy, Jamison, Parker, Hickson and Boobie, and Hickson was on his way out. You don't turnover 67% of your roster if you aren't already rebuilding.

 

[Simon]

Re: Not as Bad as the Record Indicates

Pretty sure Dan Gilbert even said the rebuild started when the Cavs drafted Kyrie....he said that on Twitter, like a month or two ago.