Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[clevelandrox23]

How many points did wiggins give up of the Pelicans 139 points? I'm sure that's Love's fault too.

He went 7-10 didn't he? 20 points 5 rebounds in 23 minutes. Neither of us watched the game and we seem to excuse Love on defense so it seems to be a bit of a double standard even if hypothetically Wiggins played poorly defense. I don't feel like rehashing my argument all over again why the Love trade was bad for this team. So I'll stop now unless one of you really baits me. I'll just say this, if Wiggy goes off on the Cavs in the Q December 23rd and Love continues to play lackluster defense and lackluster offense I might need to get a ban.

 

[Vindicate2]

He went 7-10 didn't he? 20 points 5 rebounds in 23 minutes. I don't feel like rehashing my argument all over again why the Love trade was bad for this team. So I'll stop now unless one of you really baits me. I'll just say this, if Wiggy goes off on the Cavs in the Q December 23rd and Love continues to play lackluster defense and lackluster offense I might need to get a ban.

In a game that was over after the first quarter when Minny gave up 40... Look For the record, I was strongly entrenched in the camp to hold onto Wiggins and waited. Now looking back if we waited this year would have been lost. You can certainly argue wiggins would be better for the long term, but seeing the challenges to this point would you agree that there would be no way we would win a title and integrate the roster this year?

 

[Zen]

He went 7-10 didn't he? 20 points 5 rebounds in 23 minutes. Neither of us watched the game and we seem to excuse Love on defense so it seems to be a bit of a double standard even if hypothetically Wiggins played poorly defense. I don't feel like rehashing my argument all over again why the Love trade was bad for this team. So I'll stop now unless one of you really baits me. I'll just say this, if Wiggy goes off on the Cavs in the Q December 23rd and Love continues to play lackluster defense and lackluster offense I might need to get a ban.

I've watched 5 minny games on League Pass this year. Coming from a guy that was really high on Wiggins I can tell you that he is a LONG way off. His handles limit him so much that he almost can't move with the ball against NBA defenders.

His game at this point is essentially 1 dribble pull up, or catch and shoot jump shot. He doesn't do much, if anything when he doesn't have the ball either averaging slightly under 1 assist and last I checked 2.4 rebounds.

I don't think Wiggins would have been able to see meaningful minutes on a super team like this for 3-4 years, Kevin Love is far, far better.

When you have Lebron on your team you don't build for 3-4 years down the road. Lebron as you saw tonight is a nearly peerless talent, you build to win now.

 

[clevelandrox23]

In a game that was over after the first quarter when Minny gave up 40... Look For the record, I was strongly entrenched in the camp to hold on the record to hold onto Wiggins and waited. Now looking back if we waited this year would have been lost. You can certainly argue wiggins would be better for the long term, but seeing the challenges to this point would you agree that there would be no way we would win a title and integrate the roster this year?

His game at this point is essentially 1 dribble pull up, or catch and shoot jump shot.

Kevin statistically is playing good on the glass. But how many of those rebounds would've merely been a LeBron, Marion, Tristan or Varejao rebound if he wasn't on the team? What matters most to me is offensive rebounds and going into tonight he was tied for 90th in league. Let that sink in. LeBron going into this season said that he wouldn't be surpirsed if we'd go 82-0 on the glass this year winning the rebound battle owing to Love, Tristan & Varejao. Thus far we are 3-3-1 with an overall rebounding margin of -4.

The argument I made then is the same argument I'll make now. In average NBA game a team takes around 75-85 shots. When you have the best player in the game with LeBron who commands a lot of shots, Kyrie who is arguably one of the 5 best offensive players in the game who also takes a bunch of shots, and not to mention role players like Dion, Marion and Mike Miller who deserve some shots, you don't need a 3rd "superstar" in Love that is accustomed to taking 17+ shots a game. Especially when that superstar is in an expiring year of his contract, doesn't play defense, and is looking to make 20+ million a year when we could've had a SG making 5-6 mil a year that most people think will be at the very least a great defensive player. You don't need Wiggins to score off anything other than dunks, layups, and some spot up 3s. That 2008-2009 Cavs team had a great chance to win the title. It makes me laugh that one of this team's most pressing needs is a defensive minded big. We just gave away the bank for the "best power forward in the league," and we still need to spend more assets on another big? That doesn't seem right to me. Granted it is early in the season so we will see what happens but thus far Love has not exactly helped the team.

 

[CSF]

^ Kevin is for sure a 20 mill a year player but not on the Cavs. On most teams he would be a 24 and 12 guy on the Cavs I think he stays closer to 20/10. Sadly a guy like Kelly Olynyk could give us 18/8 and bout the same on D. And why do other teams keep finding quailty bigs in the mid and late 1st round and the Cavs have done so in like forever.

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

I was pleased with the looks Love was getting against BOS. Both in the post and on the perimeter, he was getting shots that over the long term you have to think he'll start hitting.

Also he is great at getting to the FT line, we are dominating the FT game night in night out and a large part of that is Love's ability to draw fouls in the paint.

 

[CavsFan005]

You guys are all right.. I made a few posts on here that said we shouldn't have made the trade until at least midseason and got bashed for it. Love already wanted to come to Cleveland and we could have gotten him on the same deal if we were struggling early in the season.

Thing is, you don't HAVE to have a big 3 to win a championship, but you surely need to have great team balance, a great bench, and great defense. We have neither of the last 2. Love is a great offensive player im not doubting that, but I still think we put up 100 + a game easily without him anyway. I would have rather paid Deng and kept Wiggins, Bennett and re-signed hawes for a quarter of the price that Love is. We wouldn't of had the same offensive fire power, but there is no doubt 1-15 we would have been better in my mind

 

[MoFlo]

^ Kevin is for sure a 20 mill a year player but not on the Cavs. On most teams he would be a 24 and 12 guy on the Cavs I think he stays closer to 20/10. Sadly a guy like Kelly Olynyk could give us 18/8 and bout the same on D. And why do other teams keep finding quailty bigs in the mid and late 1st round and the Cavs have done so in like forever.

So, a 20/10 guy who will shoot close to 40% from deep, get to the FT line a ton, & ignites fast breaks better than anyone in the game isn't worth $20 M per year for this team?

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

I still think we need to be patient with Love.

The true value of star talent isn't always evident in the regular season. Come playoff time cream rises and the more elite talent you have on the floor the better IMO.

Getting stars is the hardest part, filling in the role players while still challenging - is a much easier proposition.

 

[CavsFan005]

So, a 20/10 guy who will shoot close to 40% from deep, get to the FT line a ton, & ignites fast breaks better than anyone in the game isn't worth $20 M per year for this team?

20 M dollar contracts are for players who play on both sides of the ball in my opinion. When Lebron came to Cleveland and Love joined the first thing I thought was wow they are going to be unstoppable, Love is like Bosh but a way better rebounder. What I didn't realize is how bad he was defensively. So far its just 7 games into the season and he has made Chris Bosh look like Bill Russell in comparison. I mean 21 points halfway through the 3rd quarter for Olynyk? Love is going to have to change his defense habits or the team is going nowhere.

 

[Pioneer10]

Come on: we have Love paired with two bigs who don't cover any of his weaknesses
-Love AV but he's not a rim protector
-TT has gotten better at blocks but he's not the smartest defender and has a hard time dealing with bigs with range. After a good game against NO, he was a no show tonight on D.
-He's also paired with Kyrie who has improved this year on defense but still far from being a plus defender.

Notice the game changed today when they sat Miller and played Harris and Marion with Lebron. He's got problem on defense but I've also seen areas where he has gotten better (one on one defense against AD for example). I think the defense issues will be taken care off as Miller gets phased out and we use our remaining assets to either add more perimeter D or another rim protecting defense (we have the assets and we are a good fit for guys like Sanders and Lopez). Overall the bigger problem is he starts to need hit the open shots he's getting. He's definitely bricking quite a few open 3's and he's short arming his hooks downlow. Once he starts hitting his shots and you combine that with his passing and rebounding, things will look much better.

 

[CSF]

So, a 20/10 guy who will shoot close to 40% from deep, get to the FT line a ton, & ignites fast breaks better than anyone in the game isn't worth $20 M per year for this team?

Thats a tough question and don't get me wrong I Love me some Love. Always been one of my favorite players in the NBA. I guess what I meant to stay is his value and top end skills would shine more on a team without 2 top 10 players. What I don't like about him, imo, he does not have alpha dog in him. He's not wired to be a leader. So he better start raining those 3's. Continue boxing Andy out otp (gotta pad those #'s) Fantasy geeks will send him hate mail if he don't. And ask LeBron to do sum pick n roll.

 

[gourimoko]

Remember that Kevin Pelton article claiming Kevin Love was an "above average defender."

What happened to that?

Im sure Kevin will get it together though...

 

[CSF]

Remember that Kevin Pelton article claiming Kevin Love was an "above average defender."

What happened to that?

Im sure Kevin will get it together though...

Not sure what part of Kevin's game you think will change for his defense to improve.
90% of Kevin's game is running in place for a 3 and running back on D to get position for a rebound. If Kevin played D then he would be out of position for those so needed stat padding rebounds. Kevin Love has a top 5 fantasy basketball following in the world.

 

[Vindicate2]

Kevin statistically is playing good on the glass. But how many of those rebounds would've merely been a LeBron, Marion, Tristan or Varejao rebound if he wasn't on the team? What matters most to me is offensive rebounds and going into tonight he was tied for 90th in league. Let that sink in. LeBron going into this season said that he wouldn't be surpirsed if we'd go 82-0 on the glass this year winning the rebound battle owing to Love, Tristan & Varejao. Thus far we are 3-3-1 with an overall rebounding margin of -4.

The argument I made then is the same argument I'll make now. In average NBA game a team takes around 75-85 shots. When you have the best player in the game with LeBron who commands a lot of shots, Kyrie who is arguably one of the 5 best offensive players in the game who also takes a bunch of shots, and not to mention role players like Dion, Marion and Mike Miller who deserve some shots, you don't need a 3rd "superstar" in Love that is accustomed to taking 17+ shots a game. Especially when that superstar is in an expiring year of his contract, doesn't play defense, and is looking to make 20+ million a year when we could've had a SG making 5-6 mil a year that most people think will be at the very least a great defensive player. You don't need Wiggins to score off anything other than dunks, layups, and some spot up 3s. That 2008-2009 Cavs team had a great chance to win the title. It makes me laugh that one of this team's most pressing needs is a defensive minded big. We just gave away the bank for the "best power forward in the league," and we still need to spend more assets on another big? That doesn't seem right to me. Granted it is early in the season so we will see what happens but thus far Love has not exactly helped the team.

All fair points ...personally losing the rebound difference as often as we have is a bigger concern than the defense in these early stages to me. I think Love needs to find a way to fit in on a nightly basis. Seems like he is struggling to find the right position he should be on both sides of the ball. I guess I have faith that he will figure it out. I will say the one deminsion missing in your argument above is if love, Irving, and James are all clicking. Saw some of that against NO. In one game situation where that happens regular season or playoff, it's lights out for the opponent. Guess time will tell, but thanks for sharing your thoughts.