Kevin Love has to be paired with a defensive Center. Andy and TT have not been good defensively and along with Kevin its killing us. I agree with CSF that Andy was overpaid, I worry about the contract Griff will give TT.
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Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine
- Thread starter Jack Brickman
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TT deserves 5m, not more imo
For all those complaining about Love's impact i'd love to see the Cavs net OTRG with him on the floor compared to him on the bench. Let's not act like the Cavs didn't trade for him unaware that he was a sub-par defender. You get what you pay for.
LeShaq
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Love is not even close to being the worst defender on the team, at least statistically. This can be seen in two charts on basketball reference.
defensive rating
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2015.html#per_poss::29
defensive box plus minus
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2015.html#advanced::24
Love is not even 6 foot 8 without his shoes. The idea that guys that small are going to reliably be rim protectors seems a bit far fetched. It can happen, but it doesn't happen much. We need more size to pair with Love so we have to get a rim protector. Nothing new there.
The concept that Love is "just a guy" or not worthy of a max contract is ridiculous to me. Faried was one of the major surprises at the World Championships this past summer and Love easily put 20/11 on him at over 50% shooting, and could have had more had he been given the ball a few more times.
It's early. I think Love and the team will be ok.
defensive rating
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2015.html#per_poss::29
defensive box plus minus
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2015.html#advanced::24
Love is not even 6 foot 8 without his shoes. The idea that guys that small are going to reliably be rim protectors seems a bit far fetched. It can happen, but it doesn't happen much. We need more size to pair with Love so we have to get a rim protector. Nothing new there.
The concept that Love is "just a guy" or not worthy of a max contract is ridiculous to me. Faried was one of the major surprises at the World Championships this past summer and Love easily put 20/11 on him at over 50% shooting, and could have had more had he been given the ball a few more times.
It's early. I think Love and the team will be ok.
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Jack Brickman
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They did sign him to the max. It was just the four year max rather than the five year one. And their GM has since been fired for his stupidity and will certainly go down in history as one of the worst GMs of all time.
So perhaps it's best not to use Minnesota's front office as an example for anything other than what not to do.
SalvadoranCavsfan
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What is it about losses that brings out the stupid people?
pl4tinum
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Compare that to the Spurs, oh my.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2015.html#per_poss::29
wremy
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Agreed.. he was either getting fouled or getting hoops all 1st half.. I didn't even think then we were feeding him enough when LeBron was clearly a lil off due to the cold or whatever.. but then in the 2nd half I remember Love getting 3 post ups.. 1 he did throw a bad pass on a double and the 2nd Faried stole it..the 3rd was a jump hook for 2... but IMO he should have gotten it about 15 times.. if Den wants to make it halfcourt and stall out our break then Love in the post or LeBron in the post are our 2 best options.. last night Love in the post was clearly our best option..and vs SA whom Love threw up 40+ last year he should get fed a ton as he wears down Duncan who has no hope of guarding him on the perimeter or off of screens... people need to realize how skilled Love is offensively.. he is so skilled and I don't think some people quite understand that..he is 1 of the most gifted big men scorers the league has seen in awhile.. he isn't the shooter Dirk is but he is damn close and he can score in so many different ways..just last night we seen him hit 3's, make jump hooks, go up and under,and go off glass from the elbow.. he has a very diverse offensive game.. when the team all learns that we will score 110-115 a night and we will need to hold teams to 96-97 ppg
NasstyNate
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Love is not being put into a position to succeed on offense. The blame lies on the whole team, from Blatt on down, including Love.
He's been getting the ball at only two spots on the floor, firstly out of the P&R behind the 3 point line. In those situations, he is getting no space at all because teams realize we only run the pick & pop to get him a 3, so they stay with him and take space away for a shot. The one time he played the P&R with Lebron and actually, you know, rolled, they looked unstoppable. But for whatever reason, he is only popping when playing the P&R with guards, which is really easy to close out on if you know it is coming. He needs to start rolling to the hoop after setting screens to keep the defense on its heels. Plus he is leaving 2 or 3 assists on the table with his passing ability after rolling with the ball.
Secondly, he gets the ball in the post. Luckily he has the game to score on his own from that spot. But unfortunately, the whole team knows it and completely freezes to watch him go to work. There are no cutters, no off ball screens, or anything designed to get a shooter open for a smart pass out of the post. I like him clocking in there, but it seems like he turns into draw a foul or bust when he gets into position. Problem is, he sometimes ends up with a low percentage shot and doesn't get the call.
We will fix all of this in time, but these are the major issues that I see right now. And all said, his offense completely outweighs his defensive shortcomings. Outside of what is asked of any player, defense is not his job. That is our center's responsibility.
He's been getting the ball at only two spots on the floor, firstly out of the P&R behind the 3 point line. In those situations, he is getting no space at all because teams realize we only run the pick & pop to get him a 3, so they stay with him and take space away for a shot. The one time he played the P&R with Lebron and actually, you know, rolled, they looked unstoppable. But for whatever reason, he is only popping when playing the P&R with guards, which is really easy to close out on if you know it is coming. He needs to start rolling to the hoop after setting screens to keep the defense on its heels. Plus he is leaving 2 or 3 assists on the table with his passing ability after rolling with the ball.
Secondly, he gets the ball in the post. Luckily he has the game to score on his own from that spot. But unfortunately, the whole team knows it and completely freezes to watch him go to work. There are no cutters, no off ball screens, or anything designed to get a shooter open for a smart pass out of the post. I like him clocking in there, but it seems like he turns into draw a foul or bust when he gets into position. Problem is, he sometimes ends up with a low percentage shot and doesn't get the call.
We will fix all of this in time, but these are the major issues that I see right now. And all said, his offense completely outweighs his defensive shortcomings. Outside of what is asked of any player, defense is not his job. That is our center's responsibility.
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because it makes so much sense to compare a group of players who have been together in the same system for 9 games to another group who has been together in the same system for over a decade?
Jack Brickman
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I think LeBron coming back brought out the stupid people. We're not getting too many quality posts from people who joined July or later.
kookoo
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Definitely. We had less people complaining when we were losing by 20 points on a given night.
godfather
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I loved the way he played last night. He established himself in the post, and I THOUGHT we kinda went away from that. Don't quite understand that.
I know it's an adjustment, playing with a legit post player. Neither Kyrie and LeBron has never played with one. Chris Bosh was never a real post player, despite what he thinks.
Right now, I gotta say, I don't like that we're too much of a perimeter team. The way our defense is playing, which is really bad, I think we need to get the ball down low more. We need more high percentage shots. We're living and dying too much by the 3.
Play off Kevin a little bit more, and make things a little easier.
The guy is a legit threat down low. Feed him the ball. I think they will start doing this more going forward.
I know it's an adjustment, playing with a legit post player. Neither Kyrie and LeBron has never played with one. Chris Bosh was never a real post player, despite what he thinks.
Right now, I gotta say, I don't like that we're too much of a perimeter team. The way our defense is playing, which is really bad, I think we need to get the ball down low more. We need more high percentage shots. We're living and dying too much by the 3.
Play off Kevin a little bit more, and make things a little easier.
The guy is a legit threat down low. Feed him the ball. I think they will start doing this more going forward.
Benedict_Boozer
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^I also liked how he was getting fed the ball - seems like its either a bucket or foul every time.
We should be forcing double teams with him on the block. Might not hurt if Blatt staggered the rotations so that he was out there when Lebron sat also, so it's not an either or situation in terms of him getting post-ups at the expense of Lebron getting touches. We could anchor the offense in any non-LBJ lineup with Love on the block.
We should be forcing double teams with him on the block. Might not hurt if Blatt staggered the rotations so that he was out there when Lebron sat also, so it's not an either or situation in terms of him getting post-ups at the expense of Lebron getting touches. We could anchor the offense in any non-LBJ lineup with Love on the block.