Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[CavsFan005]

You picked a poor time to make this sort of point. Kevin Love was the only one doing anything against the Mavs. Love also won us the Hornets game while everyone stank.

He is right though. He put up 30 points sure, but he is still a 1 dimensional player

 

[priceFTW]

You picked a poor time to make this sort of point. Kevin Love was the only one doing anything against the Mavs. Love also won us the Hornets game while everyone stank.

Without Love, were down 20+ in the first half. There were a lot of good signs from him these last two games. He's not. Defensive stopper but can be a great offensive weapon. He crashed the offensive boards for really the first time this year, he was aggressive inside and finished in traffic, he put the ball on the floor a few times, he conducted offense from the left block, making some nice passes, hit that little jump hook, and once again drew fouls.

If James comes back and plays like himself, an offense going through James and Love would out a lot of pressure on the defense.

This is such vs strange situation. There's not many teams that can say getting two defensive role players would make them conference contenders. PJ Tucker and Mosgov or Koufos along with a James fully locked in and a alive that's used effectively gives this team a chance.

 

[Birdy89]

No, but I don't have it in for certain players either.

As for the empty stats argument, how about this:

16-48 FGA by Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters. But for Kevin Love the Cavs lose against Charlotte.

6-23 (and 24-65 by everyone else) by Irving and Waiters. But for Love, the game is lost in the first quarter.

That's 22-71 by our guards over the last two games and you have the balls to blame it on Love?

Please. Anyone that blames the Cavs' woes on a single player at this point is a moron.

Oh I think Kyrie is an empty stat guy as well.

He and Love are 2 peas in a pod that way. 1 dimensional players that have spent their entire careers on losing teams with them as "the guy" and needing Lebron to come and save the day.

Kyrie/Love are actually a poor man's Melo because at least he did lead a team to the conference finals.

I thought Lebron's presence would force those 2 to at least try and play some defense, and they just can't or won't do it.

I want to see a title in this town, and it won't be possible as long as we have Love/Kyrie refusing to play defense.

You can tell who watched the game today and who just looked at the box scores, because the people that watched the game saw the both of them treated like punks in a prison shower by the Mavs as they just did whatever they wanted with no resistance against them.

That might of flown in Minnesota where they were never going anywhere and no one cared, but winning a title requires guys to be 2 way players.

 

[Sebastian]

He is right though. He put up 30 points sure, but he is still a 1 dimensional player

By your measure, and the measure that is being employed to repeatedly evaluate Love, any player that doesn't play defense is a one-dimensional player (to say nothing of rebounding not counted as a valuable contribution to the game).

Here is a list of one-dimensional players, by that measure, on the 2014-2015 Cleveland Cavaliers:

EVERYONE (But LeBron James).

Maybe that is the bigger issue than Love? And, by implication, they certainly should have acquired an available PF that is both a beast on offense and defense such as....

 

[MH32246]

It has been kind of weird that Love has been productive these last two games more so than at any point of the season when the expectations are now lowered and nobody expects us to do anything over the next two weeks.

 

[CavsFan005]

Without Love, were down 20+ in the first half. There were a lot of good signs from him these last two games. He's not. Defensive stopper but can be a great offensive weapon. He crashed the offensive boards for really the first time this year, he was aggressive inside and finished in traffic, he put the ball on the floor a few times, he conducted offense from the left block, making some nice passes, hit that little jump hook, and once again drew fouls.

If James comes back and plays like himself, an offense going through James and Love would out a lot of pressure on the defense.

This is such vs strange situation. There's not many teams that can say getting two defensive role players would make them conference contenders. PJ Tucker and Mosgov or Koufos along with a James fully locked in and a alive that's used effectively gives this team a chance.

We are probably going to need to do better then that. Its obvious that the big 3 needs two great defenders out there in the starting lineup with them. Its up to the front office to acquire the pieces and Blatt to play them. We can't be throwing more offensive players out there like Miller expecting a different result.

The big 3 is a offensive-minded big 3. Put a good wing and post defender out there with them and we can turn this thing around quickly

 

[Birdy89]

By your measure, and the measure that is being employed to repeatedly evaluate Love, any player that doesn't play defense is a one-dimensional player (to say nothing of rebounding not counted as a valuable contribution to the game).

Here is a list of one-dimensional players, by that measure, on the 2014-2015 Cleveland Cavaliers:

EVERYONE (But LeBron James).

Maybe that is the bigger issue than Love? And, by implication, they certainly should have acquired an available PF that is both a beast on offense and defense such as....

We didn't need the beast on offense, we needed it on defense.

Kyrie and Lebron provide more than enough scoring like James/Wade.

There is only 1 ball, and the list of teams that have won titles building a team that tries to outscore you instead of stop you is non-existent.

A 3rd major scorer is not necessary. Just being functional on offense would have been more than enough with Lebron/Kyrie.

The PF was always going to be turned into Bosh as a 3rd option.

I am just imagining a series with the Spurs right now and they will be running lay-up lines against us, and the fact our 3rd option can score 30 a game won't mean squat.

 

[Sebastian]

It has been kind of weird that Love has been productive these last two games more so than at any point of the season when the expectations are now lowered and nobody expects us to do anything over the next two weeks.

Well, unless Love can play three positions at once tomorrow, I am not sure what we can expect from a team with two all-stars and another starter on the injured list.

Tristan Thompson will be the third best player on the team tomorrow. Or Shawn Marion depending on your opinion. And Dion Waiters playing a smart game tomorrow will be the difference between winning and losing to the Philadelphia First Armored Division. Such statements should make everyone cringe.

 

[AMC]

When a roster isn't a finished product...the glaring holes cause your core player's weaknesses to become more evident than previously.

Our holes are: defensive center, wing defender with height, and a veteran backup PG.

We get accustomed to these holes and blame the Cavs struggles on our core players. We all know Love and Kyrie aren't perfect players, but we cannot throw the blame on them when we don't even have everything we need on this roster. When holes are filled correctly an equilibrium can be found.

Have patience.

 

[CavsFan005]

When a roster isn't a finished product...the glaring holes cause your core player's weaknesses to become more evident than previously.

Our holes are: defensive center, wing defender with height, and a veteran backup PG.

We get accustomed to these holes and blame the Cavs struggles on our core players. We all know Love and Kyrie aren't perfect players, but we cannot throw the blame on them when we don't even have everything we need on this roster. When holes are filled correctly an equilibrium can be found.

Have patience.

I would add we need some more capable bench options as well. The fo has an awful lot of work to do with a 2 year window. I'm not sure how optimistic I am given the moves we have already made this year

 

[czvo]

When a roster isn't a finished product...the glaring holes cause your core player's weaknesses to become more evident than previously.

Our holes are: defensive center, wing defender with height, and a veteran backup PG.

We get accustomed to these holes and blame the Cavs struggles on our core players. We all know Love and Kyrie aren't perfect players, but we cannot throw the blame on them when we don't even have everything we need on this roster. When holes are filled correctly an equilibrium can be found.

Have patience.

That's either the best or worst pick up line ever.

 

[priceFTW]

We are probably going to need to do better then that. Its obvious that the big 3 needs two great defenders out there in the starting lineup with them. Its up to the front office to acquire the pieces and Blatt to play them. We can't be throwing more offensive players out there like Miller expecting a different result.

The big 3 is a offensive-minded big 3. Put a good wing and post defender out there with them and we can turn this thing around quickly

I hope we can do better than that but those would make this team much, much better. We'd get more stops, we'd get out on more breaks, and we'd go on more runs. As much as we has underachieved, we were 17-10 before all the injuries and had an SRS over 4, 7th best in the league. Even a slight better defense would make us a very good team.

On top of all this, we need for our drafted core of Kyrie, Dion, and TT to show improvement. The Bulls have become contenders through their acquisition of Gasol and Butler's expected almost unheard of improvement. I don't think anybody thought that Butler would become an offensive weapon. Kyrie needs to continue getting better on defense rather than regressing. He's only 22 so he can get better on both sides like Curry and Lillard have. TT needs to show at least some ability on offense to make him more than an offensive rebounder. Dion...there's a lot and I really hope we see it before management gives up and trades him. This improvement would really go a long way in helping us rather than just hoping some bandaids we get fix everything.

I love Kyrie, but deep down, I wonder if he can get to Curry's level one day. It's an uneasy feeling knowing that having Kyrie and Love out there doesn't even give you a chance against a good team regardless of the lacking roster around them. When we look at Curry, his team always has a shot because he's on the court.

 

[Sebastian]

I hope we can do better than that but those would make this team much, much better. We'd get more stops, we'd get out on more breaks, and we'd go on more runs. As much as we has underachieved, we were 17-10 before all the injuries and had an SRS over 4, 7th best in the league. Even a slight better defense would make us a very good team.

On top of all this, we need for our drafted core of Kyrie, Dion, and TT to show improvement. The Bulls have become contenders through their acquisition of Gasol and Butler's expected almost unheard of improvement. I don't think anybody thought that Butler would become an offensive weapon. Kyrie needs to continue getting better on defense rather than regressing. He's only 22 so he can get better on both sides like Curry and Lillard have. TT needs to show at least some ability on offense to make him more than an offensive rebounder. Dion...there's a lot and I really hope we see it before management gives up and trades him. This improvement would really go a long way in helping us rather than just hoping some bandaids we get fix everything.

I love Kyrie, but deep down, I wonder if he can get to Curry's level one day. It's an uneasy feeling knowing that having Kyrie and Love out there doesn't even give you a chance against a good team regardless of the lacking roster around them. When we look at Curry, his team always has a shot because he's on the court.

Love will never be a great defender. At best he'll be average. He does't have the athletic tools. I think it is far more disappointing that Irving and Waiters haven't improved; both possess the tools to be above-average. Waiters has shown flashes of it and so has Irving but I think they don't want to put in the time right now. Until they do, this roster is properly fucked on D.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

You can tell who watched the game today and who just looked at the box scores, because the people that watched the game saw the both of them treated like punks in a prison shower by the Mavs as they just did whatever they wanted with no resistance against them.

I was thinking this about the people effectively saying that a guy scoring 30 points was somehow the issue today. Like he was disrupting the flow of the team by chucking the ball up outside the offense and taking 35 shots or something- no, he was very efficient on a team that has had extreme difficulty finding scoring with LeBron out. If our guards could shoot, it would have been a good game. His defense was not even that bad, especially compared to his teammates. He gave up a few easy buckets to Chandler and could not really affect Dirk's crazy fadeaway.(James Jones blocking one of those was the fluke of the year)

Love's effort was mostly there when it hasn't always been on that end. He'll never be a rim protector and maybe not even an average defender, but he was the least of our problems today. Our guards could not stay in front of theirs, we did a poor job defending their shooters, and they just out-executed us as a team. We have a very thinly sliced swiss cheese roster right now.

Kyrie has shown this season that he can defend at a fairly high level when healthy and focused. Today he wasn't healthy, but the ability is there, we just need it consistently.

 

[priceFTW]

Love will never be a great defender. At best he'll be average. He does't have the athletic tools. I think it is far more disappointing that Irving and Waiters haven't improved; both possess the tools to be above-average. Waiters has shown flashes of it and so has Irving but I think they don't want to put in the time right now. Until they do, this roster is properly fucked on D.

To be title contenders, three of the starting 5 have to be plus defenders. HAVE to be. And the other two (presumably Love and Irving) can't be horrendous. Love has at least been statistically (DRAPM--not the be all, end all, but still) not horrible on defense because of his ability to clean up the defensive glass and because he doesn't foul thereby limiting second chance points (easy lay ups, open threes, FTs after fouls in close). Kyrie, on the other hand, has always been terrible statistically (DRAPM).

Spurs last year had 4 plus defenders to go along with a weak defender in Parker with Duncan, even at 37-38, on pe of the biggest impact players on defense. People forget that the Spurs were statistically better on defense than offense last year and were known for defense until most recently.

Miami had three plus defenders plus Battier if he started and Chalmers was a neutral defender.

Dallas only had Terry as a negative defender as Dirk was decent back then.

Lakers only had Fisher as a slight negative, Kobe was neutral but Odom and Artest were monsters.

Celtics only had Allen as a negative defender

Have to go back to the 2007 Spurs with two terrible defenders who got a lot of time (Parker and Finley) but shorty played a lot of crunch time minutes and of course an all-time defender at center made life easier.