randymoss1881
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And he was crucified on here for saying that.
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Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine
- Thread starter Jack Brickman
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And he was crucified on here for saying that.
MirORich
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It's tricky because as a big there are limits to how much he can control the ball and shoot his way out of a slump.
Kyrie started 1-7 the other night but as he controls the ball, he can dictate where he gets his shots and took enough to let the law of averages take over(and then some on that night).
I only got to see portions of the game so I don't know what percentage of him not shooting in the final three quarters was him passing up open looks or his teammates just not looking his way.
It definitely seems like its getting to the point where its a mental block for him. And it must be frustrating because in order to shoot himself out of his slump, he needs to take the shots that are there, which are not necessarily the shots he used to taking or the looks/spots on the floor that he's used to getting the ball on.
But that is part of the sacrifice involved on being on a team like this. And so far it seems like he's done a good job of keeping his frustration internalized at himself and his teammates seem to have done a good job of supporting him and praising him for the other areas that he positively affects the game.
Long term, for the end of the season and beyond he has got to get his shot back. In the offseason, there will be plenty of time for the staff to evaluate the full year they had with this roster and find additional ways to maximize Love in the offense. But there is no training camp or retooling the offense for this year. He has to work with what they're doing and work on his shot in private until he begins to shoot to the standard that he's used to.
I still see it as a positive that we can be have a guy who is used to being a franchise player struggling to adjust but be in the middle of an 11 game winning streak and not having his personal offensive struggles affect the team offense too much and especially the defense, which has improved immensely for the team and substantially for Love. When he gets turned around, whether in 5 games or 20 games, it will add a whole new level of lethalness to our team. Wish it would happen sooner but its pretty nice to be able to have the best SF and a top 5 PG to carry the load while Love struggles. On most teams, Love is one of the top 2 players and if he was struggling like this, the impact it would have on the win and losses would be greater than what we're experiencing currently
Kyrie started 1-7 the other night but as he controls the ball, he can dictate where he gets his shots and took enough to let the law of averages take over(and then some on that night).
I only got to see portions of the game so I don't know what percentage of him not shooting in the final three quarters was him passing up open looks or his teammates just not looking his way.
It definitely seems like its getting to the point where its a mental block for him. And it must be frustrating because in order to shoot himself out of his slump, he needs to take the shots that are there, which are not necessarily the shots he used to taking or the looks/spots on the floor that he's used to getting the ball on.
But that is part of the sacrifice involved on being on a team like this. And so far it seems like he's done a good job of keeping his frustration internalized at himself and his teammates seem to have done a good job of supporting him and praising him for the other areas that he positively affects the game.
Long term, for the end of the season and beyond he has got to get his shot back. In the offseason, there will be plenty of time for the staff to evaluate the full year they had with this roster and find additional ways to maximize Love in the offense. But there is no training camp or retooling the offense for this year. He has to work with what they're doing and work on his shot in private until he begins to shoot to the standard that he's used to.
I still see it as a positive that we can be have a guy who is used to being a franchise player struggling to adjust but be in the middle of an 11 game winning streak and not having his personal offensive struggles affect the team offense too much and especially the defense, which has improved immensely for the team and substantially for Love. When he gets turned around, whether in 5 games or 20 games, it will add a whole new level of lethalness to our team. Wish it would happen sooner but its pretty nice to be able to have the best SF and a top 5 PG to carry the load while Love struggles. On most teams, Love is one of the top 2 players and if he was struggling like this, the impact it would have on the win and losses would be greater than what we're experiencing currently
AlohaCav
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My take from the last few games is that he's being passive. Seems like they pass him the ball and he almost immediately passes it right back. Also think they need to get him touches in the paint early in games. Too often he just goes to the corner and stands. Part of that to me though, happens when James brings the ball up and stands near the time line for 15 seconds. Then love just stands there and waits to go crash the boards.
He has to be frustrated. But I watch him constantly after baskets and he's always pumping his fist or slapping hands with someone. So he's not sort of leaving himself on an island. He's still engaging with everyone and in the game. He's still rebounding like crazy too. Another thing I've noticed is, he's not getting any calls, and that really seems to frustrate him too.
I think he will be fine, but they have to find a way to better utilize him early in games. Get him involved.
He has to be frustrated. But I watch him constantly after baskets and he's always pumping his fist or slapping hands with someone. So he's not sort of leaving himself on an island. He's still engaging with everyone and in the game. He's still rebounding like crazy too. Another thing I've noticed is, he's not getting any calls, and that really seems to frustrate him too.
I think he will be fine, but they have to find a way to better utilize him early in games. Get him involved.
Cavatt
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There are as many shots as you want on this team. You have to move without the ball and set screens. Get open Lebron will get you the ball. Its why Andy and Tristan, and now Mozgov always get their shots.
Kevin is used to getting his opportunities automatically as a first option. He needs to work for them here and get away from his man. When he is open he gets the ball, it's just that simple.
Watch him in transition and he is deadly there because he moves to the open spots. He doesn't do it in the half court. He stands there.
Kevin is used to getting his opportunities automatically as a first option. He needs to work for them here and get away from his man. When he is open he gets the ball, it's just that simple.
Watch him in transition and he is deadly there because he moves to the open spots. He doesn't do it in the half court. He stands there.
CavsFTW
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LeBron: Love needs more confidence in shot
CLEVELAND -- After Kevin Love scored a season-low five points Monday and didn't attempt a shot after going 1-for-7 in the first quarter, LeBron James suggested there were more shots available for Love that he turned down and questioned whether his teammate's confidence might be shaken.
"I think Kev had some shots that he passed up on," James said. "Maybe he felt that he just wasn't in a good rhythm, but I know I hit him with a few [potential] shots after the first quarter where he had some good looks when he decided to swing-swing [with a pass], which is OK, it kept the ball moving. So, I think for Kev, I think his confidence maybe shooting the ball is a little down, but for me as a player, I get him good looks. I want him to shoot the ball and he needs to shoot it with confidence."
The Cleveland Cavaliers still managed to win their league-leading 11th straight game, beating the Philadelphia 76ers 97-84, but Love finished with an atypical stat line of five points, 15 rebounds, two assists, one steal and one block in 33 minutes.
It was only the third time in the three-time All-Star's seven-year career that he scored five points or fewer in a game in which he played 32 minutes or more, according to BasketballReference.com.
"I'm just doing what's being asked of me," Love said. "I think I've kind of been doing that all year. I've been keeping my head up and keeping positive, glass half-full. And I'm just trying to impact the game in other ways as best I can. I think tonight I did that on the defensive end -- stuff that doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet, and I've been trying to rebound the ball and get inside the paint a little bit more these past few games."
Love didn't totally agree with James' assessment.
"Maybe one look, but it was more so on a swing-swing to [Matthew Dellavedova]," Love said. "I think a guy was closing out on me and I hit Delly and Delly didn't end up shooting it. But, no, I think I had some good looks in the first quarter -- a couple tip-ins that I missed; [Timofey Mozgov] and I both went for the lob, I thought I had my hand on it, and missed that one. But, you know, getting good looks there. Not for lack of confidence, no."
Despite the low scoring output, Love had the highest individual plus-minus rating (plus-26) of any Cavs player against Philadelphia.
Cavs coach David Blatt said Love's offensive opportunities or lack thereof is something his team must address.
"That shouldn't happen," Blatt said. "It absolutely shouldn't happen.
"I don't think we moved the ball well enough," he continued.
Cleveland finished with 20 turnovers against 22 assists.
"We could have played at him a little bit more," Blatt said. "We haven't practiced, again, for awhile. We got to work on a few things and clean that up."
Love returned to the court at Quicken Loans Arena immediately following the game for shooting drills with the help of player development coach Phil Handy to clean up things on his shot.
"I just wanted to get some extra shots up," Love said. "I was either going to go do that or lift after the game, and just went and got them up."
While the Cavs are playing their best ball of the season largely because of their improved defense -- which Love has been an integral part of, making strides to shed himself of his bad defensive reputation from his days in Minnesota -- Love has struggled mightily on offense during the Cavs' win streak. In his past 10 games, Love is averaging 13.9 points on 37.2 percent shooting. (He sat out the other game he missed in the streak, a 126-121 win over the Los Angeles Clippers, with back spasms.)
Kyrie Irving, who earlier in the season employed the same postgame routine as Love after a rough shooting night, said Love found other ways to contribute.
"It's a team basketball game," Irving said. "For us, I didn't even know [Love didn't take a shot after the first quarter], honestly. But he was doing all the little things in order for us to win, and we all understand that. I understand that, he understands that. Game to game, it's just different guys are going to step up."
Love ranked fourth in the league last season at 26.1 points per game. He's down to 16.9 points per game this season, the fewest he has put up since his second season in the league.
"I think I obviously definitely could be [scoring more]," Love said. "I've had my share of big games in this league and made a significant impact scoring the ball. But I'm just doing what's being asked of me right now and playing where I'm being asked to play. And we've won 11 games in a row so I'm going to continue to [play that role]. That's just how it is right now."
Love pointed to his dip in offensive rebounds per game -- 2.9 last season with Minnesota compared to 2.2 this season -- as an area where he can help out his game.
"Just getting in the paint with Tristan [Thompson] a little bit more and keeping plays alive because I think that that can be pretty devastating for us when you have guys like Timo and Tristan and myself offensive rebounding," Love said. "Because I've been able to do that in my career and haven't done it as much, probably, as I should this year. But as I mentioned, I'm just going to continue doing right by this team and sacrificing for the better of the team."
James, who has praised Love at times this season for how the power forward handled himself when being benched by Blatt in the fourth quarter, elaborated on how individual sacrifice is necessary for team success.
"At the end of the day, you want to win and you sacrifice whatever you need to do to help the team win," James said. "It's all that matters. It doesn't matter about shot attempts. It doesn't matter about how many touches you get. If you want to win, then you'll do that. I'll go 0-for-0 from the field to win. I'll get rebounds, I'll get assists, I'll take charges, I'll get steals. I don't need to shoot the ball at all, because I'm about winning. That's all that matters."
CLEVELAND -- After Kevin Love scored a season-low five points Monday and didn't attempt a shot after going 1-for-7 in the first quarter, LeBron James suggested there were more shots available for Love that he turned down and questioned whether his teammate's confidence might be shaken.
"I think Kev had some shots that he passed up on," James said. "Maybe he felt that he just wasn't in a good rhythm, but I know I hit him with a few [potential] shots after the first quarter where he had some good looks when he decided to swing-swing [with a pass], which is OK, it kept the ball moving. So, I think for Kev, I think his confidence maybe shooting the ball is a little down, but for me as a player, I get him good looks. I want him to shoot the ball and he needs to shoot it with confidence."
The Cleveland Cavaliers still managed to win their league-leading 11th straight game, beating the Philadelphia 76ers 97-84, but Love finished with an atypical stat line of five points, 15 rebounds, two assists, one steal and one block in 33 minutes.
It was only the third time in the three-time All-Star's seven-year career that he scored five points or fewer in a game in which he played 32 minutes or more, according to BasketballReference.com.
"I'm just doing what's being asked of me," Love said. "I think I've kind of been doing that all year. I've been keeping my head up and keeping positive, glass half-full. And I'm just trying to impact the game in other ways as best I can. I think tonight I did that on the defensive end -- stuff that doesn't necessarily show up in the stat sheet, and I've been trying to rebound the ball and get inside the paint a little bit more these past few games."
Love didn't totally agree with James' assessment.
"Maybe one look, but it was more so on a swing-swing to [Matthew Dellavedova]," Love said. "I think a guy was closing out on me and I hit Delly and Delly didn't end up shooting it. But, no, I think I had some good looks in the first quarter -- a couple tip-ins that I missed; [Timofey Mozgov] and I both went for the lob, I thought I had my hand on it, and missed that one. But, you know, getting good looks there. Not for lack of confidence, no."
Despite the low scoring output, Love had the highest individual plus-minus rating (plus-26) of any Cavs player against Philadelphia.
Cavs coach David Blatt said Love's offensive opportunities or lack thereof is something his team must address.
"That shouldn't happen," Blatt said. "It absolutely shouldn't happen.
"I don't think we moved the ball well enough," he continued.
Cleveland finished with 20 turnovers against 22 assists.
"We could have played at him a little bit more," Blatt said. "We haven't practiced, again, for awhile. We got to work on a few things and clean that up."
Love returned to the court at Quicken Loans Arena immediately following the game for shooting drills with the help of player development coach Phil Handy to clean up things on his shot.
"I just wanted to get some extra shots up," Love said. "I was either going to go do that or lift after the game, and just went and got them up."
While the Cavs are playing their best ball of the season largely because of their improved defense -- which Love has been an integral part of, making strides to shed himself of his bad defensive reputation from his days in Minnesota -- Love has struggled mightily on offense during the Cavs' win streak. In his past 10 games, Love is averaging 13.9 points on 37.2 percent shooting. (He sat out the other game he missed in the streak, a 126-121 win over the Los Angeles Clippers, with back spasms.)
Kyrie Irving, who earlier in the season employed the same postgame routine as Love after a rough shooting night, said Love found other ways to contribute.
"It's a team basketball game," Irving said. "For us, I didn't even know [Love didn't take a shot after the first quarter], honestly. But he was doing all the little things in order for us to win, and we all understand that. I understand that, he understands that. Game to game, it's just different guys are going to step up."
Love ranked fourth in the league last season at 26.1 points per game. He's down to 16.9 points per game this season, the fewest he has put up since his second season in the league.
"I think I obviously definitely could be [scoring more]," Love said. "I've had my share of big games in this league and made a significant impact scoring the ball. But I'm just doing what's being asked of me right now and playing where I'm being asked to play. And we've won 11 games in a row so I'm going to continue to [play that role]. That's just how it is right now."
Love pointed to his dip in offensive rebounds per game -- 2.9 last season with Minnesota compared to 2.2 this season -- as an area where he can help out his game.
"Just getting in the paint with Tristan [Thompson] a little bit more and keeping plays alive because I think that that can be pretty devastating for us when you have guys like Timo and Tristan and myself offensive rebounding," Love said. "Because I've been able to do that in my career and haven't done it as much, probably, as I should this year. But as I mentioned, I'm just going to continue doing right by this team and sacrificing for the better of the team."
James, who has praised Love at times this season for how the power forward handled himself when being benched by Blatt in the fourth quarter, elaborated on how individual sacrifice is necessary for team success.
"At the end of the day, you want to win and you sacrifice whatever you need to do to help the team win," James said. "It's all that matters. It doesn't matter about shot attempts. It doesn't matter about how many touches you get. If you want to win, then you'll do that. I'll go 0-for-0 from the field to win. I'll get rebounds, I'll get assists, I'll take charges, I'll get steals. I don't need to shoot the ball at all, because I'm about winning. That's all that matters."
mhi
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The shots he's been passing up are the ones he gets behind the 3pt line. Subtle way of telling the coaches he wants more post touches.
The stuff about getting in the paint for offensive rebounding is kind of bad because it's gonna hurt our offense if he's not spotted up and he's instead crowding the paint for the rebound.
I mean how hard is it to dump the ball into him, spread the floor (god forbid we throw in some off the ball movement) and let him go to work in single coverage.
It also doesn't help that the sets that are Blatt's in our offense are designed to move the defense and create mismatches but only for the perimeter players to attack. The other set(s) Lebron likes to run (Irving is also calling this one a lot now) is the high pick n roll with a spread floor which turns into thos 3pt shots Love is turning down.
The stuff about getting in the paint for offensive rebounding is kind of bad because it's gonna hurt our offense if he's not spotted up and he's instead crowding the paint for the rebound.
I mean how hard is it to dump the ball into him, spread the floor (god forbid we throw in some off the ball movement) and let him go to work in single coverage.
It also doesn't help that the sets that are Blatt's in our offense are designed to move the defense and create mismatches but only for the perimeter players to attack. The other set(s) Lebron likes to run (Irving is also calling this one a lot now) is the high pick n roll with a spread floor which turns into thos 3pt shots Love is turning down.
AlohaCav
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I do agree that he doesn't move a lot without the ball. He could cut to the basket more when he's camped out at the three point line. I just hope they figure it out, I think he can be a really good player in the offense and he's getting better defensively.
Baseline Runner
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Despite Love only scoring 5 points he impacted the game in a lot of other ways. He was dominate on the glass (you saw him get some really difficult rebounds), made some great passes and played pretty good D all game. If Love can do those things consistently I don't mind him scoring less, we have a lot of scorers on this team.
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Something that really doesnt seem to get the discussion it deserves. A big part of working within the team is to get your teammates the ball in spots where he is comfortable shooting. That means a ball at the right height and with the right timing relative to the defender and the shooter. So if Love gets the ball low, or a split second late, or in the wrong spot, he isn't going to be confident. And of course the right thing to do is to swing the ball and try again..
Someone on the board mentioned Kyrie's bounce passes to big men sometime cause a problem ( because the big starts too low) But you have a similar thing with a shooter, you have to hit him in the upper chest as his feet set, so he can fire before the defense adjusts.. Some players are skilled at making shots that arent set up perfectly, like JR, and players like Kobe, can make a shot off balance, fading with a hand in his face, From three feet behind the arc....,so it matters less. But Love is not that guy. Kyrie might be, but not Love.
When I watch games, I will see Lebron spot JR Smith getting a tiny seam, and rocket a pass to him perfectly, but I have seen him miss Love literally standing alone. I think this is a matter of Lebron telling Love, I want you over there, and Love being confortable over here. In Minny, Love could probably dictate that, but not here, and its Lebron and Kyrie that handle the ball, so Kevin has to cowboy up and adjust.. Kyrie doesn't have an opinion, and in fact did not notice Love is not taking shots, because he has not matured to the point that he wants that kind of control, or would know what to do with it.. . Lebron's message to Love is learn to shoot it from where I want you to shoot it. And lebron has enough IQ to want that shot because of what it forces the defense to do. And Blatt, who probably drew the play up the way Kevin is running it, has not figured it out yet.
So if I were Love, given the situation and opportunity, I would try to learn to shoot it with confidence from spots where they are passing to me, in the way it is being passed. Given Loves success at improving his skills in the past, I would say there is a good chance he figures it out, and at that point defending the cavs will be even more impossible. In the meantime defend and rebound because that is always usefull..
Someone on the board mentioned Kyrie's bounce passes to big men sometime cause a problem ( because the big starts too low) But you have a similar thing with a shooter, you have to hit him in the upper chest as his feet set, so he can fire before the defense adjusts.. Some players are skilled at making shots that arent set up perfectly, like JR, and players like Kobe, can make a shot off balance, fading with a hand in his face, From three feet behind the arc....,so it matters less. But Love is not that guy. Kyrie might be, but not Love.
When I watch games, I will see Lebron spot JR Smith getting a tiny seam, and rocket a pass to him perfectly, but I have seen him miss Love literally standing alone. I think this is a matter of Lebron telling Love, I want you over there, and Love being confortable over here. In Minny, Love could probably dictate that, but not here, and its Lebron and Kyrie that handle the ball, so Kevin has to cowboy up and adjust.. Kyrie doesn't have an opinion, and in fact did not notice Love is not taking shots, because he has not matured to the point that he wants that kind of control, or would know what to do with it.. . Lebron's message to Love is learn to shoot it from where I want you to shoot it. And lebron has enough IQ to want that shot because of what it forces the defense to do. And Blatt, who probably drew the play up the way Kevin is running it, has not figured it out yet.
So if I were Love, given the situation and opportunity, I would try to learn to shoot it with confidence from spots where they are passing to me, in the way it is being passed. Given Loves success at improving his skills in the past, I would say there is a good chance he figures it out, and at that point defending the cavs will be even more impossible. In the meantime defend and rebound because that is always usefull..
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Green Lantern
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To add to some good observations, it appears that Blatt wants more defense in the fourth quarters and thats one reason why Love isn't in there very much. I think Love can provide scoring in the second half , and maybe Blatt can show a different look by having the offense run through him late in the game.
Captain S
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It's not all about post touches, his back issues have prevented him from utilizing his underrated face up game.
Because of this defenders crowd him, which helps out spacing but when he could drive he could attack closeouts and use screens a lot better. His jumpers were also more open because of the threat of him facing up
Some great posts above.
If we want to get our money's worth from Love, we have got to get him to the point where he feels free on some level to be a creator at the offensive end, not just a spot-up shooter who gets some open 3s. In order to do that he has to have his post game working (I am talking about the face up game that Captain S referred to above). But neither Blatt nor Lebron appears to have figured out how we want the team to play off Kev when he is posting up. The most we do when that is happening is take turns. Furthermore, there seems to be some kind of physical issue with his post scoring, particularly recently -- those jump hooks and turnarounds are flat and short and he doesn't appear as quick to take his man. (Shades of Antwan Jamison occasionally).
I am not sure whether the apparent physical limitations with Love in the post are A) because he has a back problem (suspect so), B) because he is just fundamentally undersized and Rick Adelman is an offensive genius who made him look better than he was, C) he has just never had to make fundamental adjustments in his game like this and the confusion slows him down.
I really thought we would have showed more progress on this issue at this point in the season. If we want to truly realize the full potential on this team we have to address it. Since Love can be a really good passer we should be able to integrate his offense into team flow.
If we want to get our money's worth from Love, we have got to get him to the point where he feels free on some level to be a creator at the offensive end, not just a spot-up shooter who gets some open 3s. In order to do that he has to have his post game working (I am talking about the face up game that Captain S referred to above). But neither Blatt nor Lebron appears to have figured out how we want the team to play off Kev when he is posting up. The most we do when that is happening is take turns. Furthermore, there seems to be some kind of physical issue with his post scoring, particularly recently -- those jump hooks and turnarounds are flat and short and he doesn't appear as quick to take his man. (Shades of Antwan Jamison occasionally).
I am not sure whether the apparent physical limitations with Love in the post are A) because he has a back problem (suspect so), B) because he is just fundamentally undersized and Rick Adelman is an offensive genius who made him look better than he was, C) he has just never had to make fundamental adjustments in his game like this and the confusion slows him down.
I really thought we would have showed more progress on this issue at this point in the season. If we want to truly realize the full potential on this team we have to address it. Since Love can be a really good passer we should be able to integrate his offense into team flow.
Walter White
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I'm okay with Love only having 5 points if we win, but we won't beat the Clippers if he has that type of performance. I'm not okay with the fact he only took 7 shots either way. Love has to off set Blake's production the best he can, and making him work on defense by being aggressive on offense is our best chance there.
My thing with Love is he originally made a name for himself in Minnesota because they didn't have to run plays for him and he would create on his own when he got the opportunitues or get hustle baskets. Here it just seems like he is to passive and scared.