Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Cashius X]

You constantly bash Love and all you do is praise Wiggins. You dot have to say it explicitly for it to be obvious...

I do? That's news to me..

Once again, don't put words into my mouth. My initial post didn't even have any mention of Wiggins so I don't know why you're bringing him up.

 

[MirORich]

Statistically, Love has stabilized and doing a good job in the context of whats being asked of him/given to him:

44% from the field and an excellent 44% from 3P land(on a high volume of shots) in both February and now March.

It's almost as if it's difficult to incorporate 3 guys who were #1 option, super high usage guys on separate teams into on cohesive perfect offense in one year.

Hopefully in the playoffs, where 7 game series lead to more specific matchup exploitation and more practice time, we use Love n a more varied way. Then in the offseason, the entire coaching staff and player roster has a summer and training camp to look back on the positives and negatives from this season and tinker with the various ways to run the offense.

It's simply not the easy thing to do in one season that many here suggest.

 

[Otsego Mar]

In Toronto, he was in the post a lot. In Miami, he was asked to be that stretch four and become a jump shooter, like Love is right now. Bosh went to the post time to time when LeBron was there, but, this season when he was healthy, he went to the post and he wanted to be a post player.

Oh, he defintely played in the post well, and he still can. But he never was a guy who would just bang on you mercilessly like Love did, and, still can.

 

[clevelandrox23]

Check out the Atlanta and Houston loss where Love couldnt contain their bigs when he produced just as well as them. It's like he has to guard both C and PF. All I saw was oh Mozgov can't contain them oh well, jr is cold lol but Love gets a 4-page circlejerk among the usual gang how he sucks. Whether it's the bashing because of salary difference or the Wiggins butthurt, people arent trying their damn best to be impartial. It's like people are always looking for reasons why Love was a big reason for losing when in fact he did better despite the way he is being handled by the staff. It's Dion Waiters all over again!


All I am saying is people shouldnt forget what he brought on the court even if its a loss. Try being objective ffs. Or not. I am not a beggar. Do what you people usually do.

I don't know Richard do you believe that you are trying your best to be impartial and objective as well? The salary difference has to be taken into account when judging a player's contribution on the court there is no other way around that. Any other thinking is nonsensical. Mozgov has certainly had some poor games defensively and perhaps at times he makes Love look bad...just typing that out feels stupid since he is the great "rim proectooor!" that we traded for to alleviate Love's load defensively. I don't think people believe that Love sucks just that they expected a bit more from a max contract multiple allstar player which is completely reasonable. What you are thinking right now in your head is where the divide begins amongst the most staunch Love supporters and haters. You will give a long sermon about how he has been misused and then I'll say he was supposedly a top 5 player going into this season he should impose his will on the game not the other way around. So let's skip that debate for another day. All that I want to know is what exactly do you mean with the Dion Waiters comparison?

I can't fathom why it is so hard to understand that Kevin Love's skillset is absolutely necessary for this roster and vital to the team's success.

I can't fathom exactly how the universe was created but I can certainly fathom why people don't believe Kevin is "absolutely necessary & vital" to the team's success and so can you. You're being a little over dramatic with your adjectives Cassie, I like it.

 

[Cavatt]

I was watching that possession at the end of the first half of the game where Delly hosted a three when nothing developed. Kevin Love passed Delly the ball then stood there and watched while nothing developed. The best offensive guy on the floor gave up the ball to Delly and let his arms drop to his side and watched.

I don't think Blatt is using him wrong. Anyone can have success in the offense when they move. JR figured it out quick. Mozgov looks like he was born to play this way. Dion had the same problem. Just walking around behind that 3 line.

 

[Rick Astley]

I don't know Richard do you believe that you are trying your best to be impartial and objective as well? The salary difference has to be taken into account when judging a player's contribution on the court there is no other way around that. Any other thinking is nonsensical. Mozgov has certainly had some poor games defensively and perhaps at times he makes Love look bad...just typing that out feels stupid since he is the great "rim proectooor!" that we traded for to alleviate Love's load defensively. I don't think people believe that Love sucks just that they expected a bit more from a max contract multiple allstar player which is completely reasonable. What you are thinking right now in your head is where the divide begins amongst the most staunch Love supporters and haters. You will give a long sermon about how he has been misused and then I'll say he was supposedly a top 5 player going into this season he should impose his will on the game not the other way around. So let's skip that debate for another day. All that I want to know is what exactly do you mean with the Dion Waiters comparison?



I can't fathom exactly how the universe was created but I can certainly fathom why people don't believe Kevin is "absolutely necessary & vital" to the team's success and so can you. You're being a little over dramatic with your adjectives Cassie, I like it.

Agreed. I'll just wait for games when guys will shut up (read: which is every after win) and at the same time wait for the blaming squad every after loss. The Dion comparison was he became a scapegoat due to frustration after every game where he was even a good player. I'm not down with that. If it makes every CLE fan feel better about themselves whenever they blame a specific player, be my guess.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

I do? That's news to me..

Once again, don't put words into my mouth. My initial post didn't even have any mention of Wiggins so I don't know why you're bringing him up.

I do not like Kevin Love.

Lol I was talking about his game. He's a stretch 4 with an inconsistent jumper and against other elite PFs I don't think he's a net positive considering how much of a liability he is defensively. I don't think this team is suited to succeed in the playoffs and itconcerns me.

Yeah I think we can all agree that Love was overrated...

I fully expect Draymond to fuck up Love tonight. Prove me wrong Kevin.

So when Love plays good no excuses but when he plays poorly he's hurt and laboring?....

He already had 1 week+ off for the ASB, how much more rest does he need? He does indeed look like he's laboring out there and he doesn't look "right" but he's looked like that ALL YEAR...we're in March now, his injury concerns are reallyat the point where it's worrisome.

And you can make all the excuses you want for Kevin. Fact of the matter though is that we brought him hear with intentions of giving a max contract and he's not playing up to par. I know basketball, obviously I see the good he brings to this team but he's been a disappointment on the year as a whole.

I think Wiggins most definitely has the potential to become a dominant player in the mode of a more offensively gifted Paul George, and I'd challengeanyone who says that, that player isn't a superstar.

Your argument is falling apart. As others have said, his splits for the past couple months have been amazing. I'm not sure how anyone can definitively already put a cap on how good he can become. He's doing what he's doing at the raw age of 19...

Moreover, if you point out his overall stats and his numbers to start the season as a rebuttal I'd implore you to remember their situation. Their starting PG got hurt, their starting SG got hurt, as well as their starting center in Pekovic. Wiggins was literally thrown into the fire, his slow start shouldn't surprise people.

But you're right. Clearly I'm just making stuff up and I'm guessing this all news to you that you said any of this. Don't pretend that you haven't bashed Love and raved about Wiggins.

 

[Douglar]

When I look at Love's lower utilization, I'm pretty sure it comes down to one of two things.

First is that Love has a relatively passive nature compared to the team's primary ball handlers. He's not going to scream & waive his hands for the ball, it is up to the guy planning the offense to get him the ball. The guy planning the offense 90% of the time is Lebron, who has his highest usage rate since 2007, and never has really embraced the idea of starting plays below the free through line, even when he had some success with it in Miami when it was forced on him. Love doesn't get to play without Lebron very much. When he does, it's with Irving starting the offense, and Kyrie is not any more likely to toss an entry pass into the high post than Lebron.

Now it's hard to fault Lebron or Kyrie. They are both very efficient scorers and as long as Love is knocking down the 3pt shots, the offense is going to tick very well. I'm not sure the Cavs would score any better if they were running plays designed to feature Kevin, but it would sure be nice to have another facet to show on offense in the playoffs, especially when teams show a surprise looks with traps or zones. If the Cavs as a team could recognize that, get the ball quickly to Love 15 feet from the hoop with time on the clock, and run a play, it would be pretty awesome, but that takes practice and familiarity, two things that have been in short supply in 2015.

My take is that this doesn't get cleared up until after the next training camp when the coaches have a chance to reestablish control of the offense. The stuff from training camp last year went out the window by game 5 of the season and it is going to take a while to sell the ball handlers on their system again and then add alternate plays. There's just not enough practice time right now to get everyone comfortable with a pre-planned counter play when so much of the plays right now consist of Lebron improvising.

The other possibility is that I don't like to think about is that Love might be playing hurt this season. Sometimes when he runs, he looks as smooth and as fluid as Leon Powe did after his third knee surgery and Powe didn't have much besides bungee cords and gravel in his knees at that point. I prefer not to think about that if I don't have to. Is it possible to to get some rest for Kevin before the playoffs? Probably not unless they want to start Marion for a few games as PF.

 

[Lee]

Bosh was never really a banger.

We could always bring back Delonte if we need a banger.


Right Gloria?

 

[King of Swords]

Love doesn't get to play without Lebron very much. When he does, it's with Irving starting the offense, and Kyrie is not any more likely to toss an entry pass into the high post than Lebron.

Personally, I see this as a problem. I would like to see some lineups without Kyrie or LBJ featuring Kevin. Delly-Shump-JR-Love-TT/Mozgov would work for a few stretches over the course of the game. All of the perimeter players in that lineup are willing and able to feed the high post and there is enough ball handling and shooting in that lineup to score effectively.

 

[Helium filament]

Personally, I see this as a problem. I would like to see some lineups without Kyrie or LBJ featuring Kevin. Delly-Shump-JR-Love-TT/Mozgov would work for a few stretches over the course of the game. All of the perimeter players in that lineup are willing and able to feed the high post and there is enough ball handling and shooting in that lineup to score effectively.

JR seems to be the best at entry passes into the post (and he's really good at it) out of that group. Delly is not very competent, and I'm not sure about Shump. I think that lineup could work to get Kevin more looks, except that it doesn't seem like Blatt really draws up plays all that often that get Kevin involved. It's hard to switch gears and include someone like Kevin when he's a third option at best and the team isn't used to finding him. I think that's why we saw so much iso-Delly when LBJ and Kyrie were out in the Indiana game (although Kevin also had a really bad shooting game there).

 

[MRMsix6]

The problem with lineups that don't include 2 of the big 3 is that they are replaced with almost purely defensive players who don't require attention from the defense. Kyrie and Lebron go out, Delly and Shump come in, and all of a sudden Love is the only good offensive player on the court. No one can dribble drive and collapse a defense. Teams can heavily shade towards Love in the mid or low post, and will flat out deny him the ball if they can. The other guys on the court can shoot, but only if someone (Lebron/Kyrie) is generating wide open looks for them (Delly, Shump, TT). JR can occasionally ISO or PNR with some success, but that's not his bread and butter. So when that happens you're pretty much just banking on Love seeing single coverage in the post, which shouldn't happen against good defenses. And that's also counting on having a guard with the ability to get him the ball in a good spot, which we haven't really seen.

When Love was the featured scorer in Minny, he had much better options to play off of (compared to the Cavs 2nd unit). Rubio is a brilliant passer who can collapse a defense and abuse spacing despite his inability to shoot. Pekovic is a legit post threat. Kevin Martin had to be respected as a scorer. They weren't great offensive options, but they were options nonetheless. Shump, Delly and TT are essentially non-options that require 90% of their offense to be force fed to them. So is Marion when he comes back, and JR only slightly less so.

 

[Kypus]

All of this points to what we already know- JR should be anchoring the 2nd unit's offense, while Shump ballhawks with the starters.

It's just up to Blatt, (who, as the Blatt thread keeps harping on, is less familiar with NBA players' skillsets), to figure out, then, have the people skills to make it happen w/o bruising egos. (JR's)

I believe he will make this adjustment eventually- whether it's over the next month, or we're forced into it by a Game 5 or 6 in the 2nd round.

 

[Kevalier]

Love is launching 8.1 threes per contest in his last seven games. His highest rate of threes taken was last season in Minnesota when he shot 6.6 a game, and that was along with the inside touches he received. No matter what the statistics suggest, Love is not in agreement on the big-man long distance tag.


“I heard some people calling me that but I know I’m not a stretch-four,” Love told NEOMG. “I’m a post player that can shoot. Right now I’m just doing what I’m called to do. For good, bad or indifferent, I’m playing my role and doing what’s asked of me. Tonight, I stayed out on the perimeter.”


===

Thoughts? Opinions?

Well, my first thought is that your avatar is incredibly disturbing.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The problem with lineups that don't include 2 of the big 3 is that they are replaced with almost purely defensive players who don't require attention from the defense. Kyrie and Lebron go out, Delly and Shump come in, and all of a sudden Love is the only good offensive player on the court. No one can dribble drive and collapse a defense. Teams can heavily shade towards Love in the mid or low post, and will flat out deny him the ball if they can. The other guys on the court can shoot, but only if someone (Lebron/Kyrie) is generating wide open looks for them (Delly, Shump, TT). JR can occasionally ISO or PNR with some success, but that's not his bread and butter. So when that happens you're pretty much just banking on Love seeing single coverage in the post, which shouldn't happen against good defenses. And that's also counting on having a guard with the ability to get him the ball in a good spot, which we haven't really seen.

When Love was the featured scorer in Minny, he had much better options to play off of (compared to the Cavs 2nd unit). Rubio is a brilliant passer who can collapse a defense and abuse spacing despite his inability to shoot. Pekovic is a legit post threat. Kevin Martin had to be respected as a scorer. They weren't great offensive options, but they were options nonetheless. Shump, Delly and TT are essentially non-options that require 90% of their offense to be force fed to them. So is Marion when he comes back, and JR only slightly less so.

This is why I was (and still am) hoping we pick up a competent vet PG before the playoffs.