Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[gourimoko]

Just for the record, below is the info I was using on the MIA James contract. While it is technically correct to say that they may have a net plus due the FL tax situation, it is also true that that all three players could have netted significantly more under the CBA:

No, no it isn't.

I actually charted this in another thread and demonstrated year-to-year each player's earnings depending upon where they signed.

For Bosh, going to Miami (and leaving Toronto) was a huge savings. For James, going to Miami and taking slightly less per year was a much better option than signing for the full max in New York or virtually break-even with Chicago (Miami is still slightly ahead after year 3).

The only likely scenario for James to make the most money that he turned down was Cleveland.

Again, the only person who actually took a real pay cut was Dwyane Wade.

 

[buzzdog]

Good lord, why would the Cavs have paid such a high price to bring Love here it there was any chance that either he'd leave or that they wouldn't want to keep him long term? You can take it to the bank that there was a verbal commitment from both sides that Love would be a Cav long term, otherwise he'd have never been brought in.

How can anyone not see this?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Good lord, why would the Cavs have paid such a high price to bring Love here it there was any chance that either he'd leave or that they wouldn't want to keep him long term? You can take it to the bank that there was a verbal commitment from both sides that Love would be a Cav long term, otherwise he'd have never been brought in.

How can anyone not see this?

In fairness, there is no way to enforce a verbal commitment, and there's nothing that can be done if one of the parties changes its mind.

 

[kovanovich]

I appreciate the minority view articulated by @CommD. You shouldn't just dish out 5 year max contracts lightly, especially when we have a year of evidence that Love wasn't a perfect fit and we have the injury concerns (back and now the shoulder). It is not unreasonable to think that you could add pieces around LeBron/Kyrie that fit just as well and that would provide the franchise greater flexibility going forward. (And yes having a team salary in the tax and/or over the apron does limit your cap flexibility in meaningful ways.)

Gouri has been the most consistent and vocal advocate of the opposite view, that superstars/stars are essential to success in the NBA, and he has even outlined a scenario where the Cavs add a 4th max (Aldridge).

A flaw in Gouri's argument is that just because a player is a max player doesn't mean he is a superstar (or even a star) or that he "deserves" the max or that you couldn't get the same production for less money or that he is the best fit for your team. Many understandably are still thinking of LeBron's first tenure here when he left for a team with actual stars. But the fact LeBron left 5 years ago doesn't mean you sign the wrong guy to a 5 year max today.

I think most of us can agree that Love was underutilized this year, but even if he just provides elite defensive rebounding and the ability to spread the floor from the PF position, those are very valuable skills. I don't see a way to replace that in one player. And this is a minimalist Love. if the Cavs figure how to maximize Love (as they seemed to be figuring out), he's a lot more than that.

Just to be clear, my position is to re-sign Love for pretty much whatever contract he wants, so long as he checks out physically.

I have no interest in addressing the Wiggins debate, except to add that if Wiggins had been on the roster, the Cavs likely wouldn't make the Shump/Smith deal. I would much rather have either Shump or Smith on this team than Wiggins at this point, and the Cavs ended up with both. Smith is the far superior shooter and Shump is the better overall player, again, at this point. Now I am talking just about this year, but valuing this year is reasonable given that the Cavs are now on the verge of the finals. In fact, even with Love missing most of the playoffs, it's hard for me to see how the Cavs make it this far without having made the Love deal, in part because it ultimately led to the Smith-Shump deal. Without Love, they would have had a huge need for a stretch 4, and that would have been their main focus, and I highly doubt Griffin could have dealt Waiters for a PF as good as the Smith/Shump combo at SG, not to mention Mozgov too.

So realistically the Cavs have:

Love
Shumpert
Smith
Mozgov

Without the Wiggins-Love trade, the Cavs have:

Wiggins
Bennett
Waiters
2015 Miami first (which ended up not conveying this year, by the way)
Memphis pick

And Griffin is left looking in vain for someone, anyone to take Waiters and Bennett off his hands for a viable PF AND help at SG AND a legitimate center to protect the rim. There's just no way that second team is anywhere near where the current team is, and the current team is well-position going forward, so long as Gilbert is willing to pay.

 

[red.]

So I guess you're just going to toss out the rest of Kevin Love's career? Kevin has a higher career rebounding percentage [20.1 > 16.7], higher defensive rebounding percentage [29.2 > 20.5], and a negligibly lower offensive rebounding percentage [11.3 < 13.2] than TT.

It seems people are forgetting the KLove before the Cavaliers. The Cavaliers did Love no favors by just having him as a spot up shooter. He was arguably the best PF rebounder for the past two seasons. Let's not forget that by one season.

People need to stop this foolishness. Tristan Thompson can't do what Love do, but Love can do what Thompson do. I love Tristan, I really do, but people need to stop. He's an energy big off the bench people hate. He's our younger Andy.

I really hope next season Blatt put a lot more of his offense into the Cavaliers.

 

[MirORich]

Best shot for long term multiple rings is to have BOTH Love and Tristan at PF(although you can imagine plenty of lineups with Love at PF and TT at Center). A healthy Andy would be a nice bonus too.

Having a full year under everyones belts will do wonders. They begin again next training camp with a much accelerated learning curve and a years worth of data and experience to shape the schemes and rotations.

First things first though...........

 

[red.]

Why the fuck are we talking about salary cap like any of us are paying these players? It's up to DAN GILBERT if he wants to open his wallet. How the fuck are you even arguing this at this point when you aren't adding funds to Dan Gilbert pockets.

Doesn't even make a lick of sense.

Then you constantly talking about the Miami Heat team, but they went to FOUR FINALS winning TWO. If we can do this, and win even one, that would be GREAT.

And if the salary cap does go to 100M. We'll be able to rotate these bench players with better ones.

 

[Gus Zing]

The relevance is that if Love walks with no compensation, it is a possibility (not certainty) that the Cavs made one of the worst trades in NBA history. No one (Griffin) wants that on their record.

I was making the case that that outcome would be somewhat alleviated by the acquisition of Smith and Shumpert. But you are right, whats done is done and we will all have to live with it.

I think LeBron will catch more flack than Griffin..
He likely pressured them to get that deal done and he never reached out to Wiggins.

Not to get too down about it. But its one thing to put aside Wiggins for Kevin Love. Thats fine if thats what LeBron wanted. I'm ok with it because thats how we got LeBron. But I really hope LeBron didnt truly dismiss Kevin throughout the season (you know all the media rumor bs) because it will look bad to push aside a guy you vouched for.

We were a dominant offensive team with Kevin Love. So of course any Cavs fan should want him back.

 

[buzzdog]

In fairness, there is no way to enforce a verbal commitment, and there's nothing that can be done if one of the parties changes its mind.

You're correct. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you were Griffin and Gilbert, would you have even considered giving up what we did without sitting down for an eye to eye, heart to heart discussion and feeling strongly that Love was committed to being here?

Then the question becomes, is Love a Carlos Boozer type liar? I think he isn't. Then listen to what he's said every time he's been asked.

No, Love can go anywhere he pleases. That simply isn't the plan, or the promise.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

LeBron is the king of passive aggressive shit. LeBron truthfully probably didn't have a relationship with Love other than "the NBA brotherhood from the olympics". When they got Kevin, the team couldn't understand his personality. He's definitely a quieter guy who doesn't rush for the opportunity to talk to the media, he's running away from them if anything.
Even Chris Bosh was hollywood with the media compared to Kevin Love. Kevin Love is lumberjack, a man of few words who just wants to do what he does and avoid all this superfluous shit.

All of this Kevin Love leaving talk is coming from one man, Brian Windhorst. It's not even Windy's personal opinion, but he keeps the shit storm brewing saying how frequently it's being talked about by people inside LeBron's camp, inside the organization, and all around the NBA. All of these same birds were chirping too saying there was no chance LeBron would ever go back to Cleveland. Turns out Bron was thinking about it all along.




We know damn well that LeBron James will go silent, and his silence implies something. That's why we fired Mike Brown, that's why Miami brought in Josh McRoberts, Shabazz Napier, and Danny Granger.

James is never going to say shit on these matters. He's not going to ask for Blatt to be fired. The Cavs (with all their camera systems) should be able see which coach LeBron clearly gravitates towards.

LeBron James will never go to management and say I want this guy gone. He doesn't want that on his resume.

LeBron never talked to Andrew Wiggins, he might not have ever called Kevin Love.





The Cavs said to Bron, "now that we got the #1 pick, Kevin Love could actually be brought in." LeBron closing in on 43,000 career minutes, he's thinking he can't just sit back and wait for some rookie.

When they got Kevin, two things needed to happen. The two most ball-dominant pieces needed to learn how to play with each other first, how that load would be distributed; then you saw Kevin getting his perfectly in the Boston series as the last piece, while Kyrie and Bron were both burnin efficiently. Secondly, they just needed to understand Kevin's personality so they all could coexist on the same team. Even that time that Bron sent the tweet about "fitting in" instead of fitting out.

Windhorst probably called Rich Paul, Rich P knows what LeBron meant by that tweet, the public got a peek into the mystery of Kevin Love's relationship with the team, then Windhorst goes out and sounds the fucking trumpet.

"I talked to a source EXTREMELY CLOSE to LeBron James who said even they think Kevin Love is going to leave."

Well DUH! They're all represented by Rich Paul. LeBron just sent out that tweet, they still don't understand Kevin.

They probably feel If Kevin doesn't want to come back, that's on him.

LeBron just wants Tristan to get paid. This is not LMLR or Klutchs' problem.

 

[buzzdog]

The Cavs can keep everyone they want to keep including both KLove and TT, JR & Shump, MOZ & Delly. They can add their draft pick and the other pieces they get from the Heywood contract and MLE. Without changing much they can have a 5 year finals run by giving Lebron better talent than he's ever had around him. That is the plan and Lebron is smart enough to see it and be in the loop. Lebron knows he can only play the way he has this year for a finite amount of time, and he knows he'll need some other max players to share the load.

Injuries can always happen. The only way to minimize them is to reduce the reliance on any one player while still putting all-star talent on the floor together along with role players. This team is as good as built for an extended championship run. This season is the toughest one for the next 5 years. We'll only get better from here.

 

[gourimoko]

Because being a free agent in 2016 rather than 2015 means he will make a hell of a lot more money. He has also said that he was going to opt in all season

No. Nonononono.... For the millionth time no.

Kevin Love should opt out this summer, sign a James-esque 2-year deal with another opt out next summer; then opt out after again after that.

But Love opting out this year saves him $3m/yr and there is absolutely no reason for him not to.

And yes, I know people keep saying he will "opt in." Makes no sense.

 

[lov3]

But Kevin Love ain't LeBron


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[gourimoko]

But Kevin Love ain't LeBron


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What does this mean, bro?

Love opting out has nothing to do with whether or not he leaves. It just maxes out his contract, even if he has 100% intention on staying; even if it means he wants nothing to do with free agency - it's just a contractual formality to increase his earnings.

 

[lov3]

What does this mean, bro?

Can't say Love should do it because LeBron did it. Also, Love specifically said he isn't opting out. Do I think he should do what LeBron did? Yes but I'll believe it when I see it

"I think that we will figure it out here, so I don't plan on opting out or any of that," Love said. "I plan on being here."


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