Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,624
- Reaction score
- 31,645
- Points
- 148
So Wiggins is ranked 31st ahead of Kevin Love at 39th XD
How is Wiggins ranked so high?????
How is Wiggins ranked so high?????
Haha, I know, I know. I'm just trying to present their justification.
Just curious, who on that list would you have Love over? At least after #30? I really have never seen him as better than that. And I am one of the biggest Love supporters on this board, not once have I ever been in favor of trading him, but he's always been a borderline all-star, which places him between #25-#30 for me.
Totally agree with you guys on Lillard, though... But I know @godfather and I have both talked about how outstanding Lillard's 2015-16 season was. He's a damn good player. I don't think he's better than Kyrie or Paul though.
Wow, we have way different analyses of Love's talent then. I'll just leave it at that for now because I'm watching the Tribe!Lowry, derozan, milsap, Hayward, gianis, Horford to name a few.
Same. I wonder why Lowry is so underrated among cavs fans. He's the engine of a talented raptor team. I disagreed but never took offence to anyone that had him above Kyrie talkless of Kevin. Now Derozan I don't rate especially high
My opinion is slightly different but not exactly at odds with yours. Remember I already said I'd take Kyrie but comparing what Kyrie did with LeBron on his team is incomplete unless we know for sure what Lowry would have done playing sidekick to Lebron. This is the same Lowry who dropped 41 against the Warriors and almost handed them their first loss of the season when the dubs were rolling in december. He helped his team to 56 wins and the eastern conference finals where they took two games off of us. Lowry is quality and even though I'll have Kyrie, I don't think the gap in quality is enough for anyone to get offended by dissenting opinions.FWIW, bro, if you really wanna know; I've written numerous detailed posts about why Kyrie is clearly better than Kyle Lowry and John Wall.
Lowry had a great season last year.. For Kyle Lowry. Kyrie Irving would likely say that this past year was his best in the league.. If you dunno why, well, I suggest watching the playoffs.
Once you add in the 21 games of the playoffs, again, things rapidly change. That's not a fluke; it's happened every single year Lowry was in the playoffs.
So, these Lowry conversations generally only want to talk about an isolated season, in which Irving was injured, and then somehow discard the last 21 games of the year because they happened to be in the playoffs - as if that somehow means they don't count.
That's why Cavs fans, who just won a championship because of Irving and James, discount these kinds of conversations. I have 0% confidence we'd win the series against the Warriors if you swap Kyrie for Kyle Lowry. I the vast majority of people who have watched both players in the playoffs would agree.
but comparing what Kyrie did with LeBron on his team is incomplete unless we know for sure what Lowry would have done playing sidekick to Lebron.
I think Kyrie is absolutely, 100% better than Lowry. I don't feel that way about Kevin Love. Love is just significantly better than Lowry, for this team, but I don't feel that way in general. Lowry is a damn good player.Same. I wonder why Lowry is so underrated among cavs fans. He's the engine of a talented raptor team. I disagreed but never took offence to anyone that had him above Kyrie talkless of Kevin. Now Derozan I don't rate especially high
Why? Without LeBron Kyrie is still a career 20+ ppg scorer. He also has never had a genuine #2 prior to LeBron. Lowry has had DeRozan from day 1 in Toronto. He's a different player without a genuine #2 like DeRozan. imo it's why he struggled getting off the bench in Memphis and Houston.
So I think it's more fair to compare Lowry without DeRozan to Kyrie without LeBron. I'd take Kyrie.
Kyrie with a genuine #2 option? I'd definitely take Kyrie. The fact that Kyrie's first genuine #2 option is also possibly the GOAT is just icing on the cake.
Why? Without LeBron Kyrie is still a career 20+ ppg scorer. He also has never had a genuine #2 prior to LeBron. Lowry has had DeRozan from day 1 in Toronto. He's a different player without a genuine #2 like DeRozan. imo it's why he struggled getting off the bench in Memphis and Houston.
So I think it's more fair to compare Lowry without DeRozan to Kyrie without LeBron. I'd take Kyrie.
Kyrie with a genuine #2 option? I'd definitely take Kyrie. The fact that Kyrie's first genuine #2 option is also possibly the GOAT is just icing on the cake.
Why? Without LeBron Kyrie is still a career 20+ ppg scorer. He also has never had a genuine #2 prior to LeBron. Lowry has had DeRozan from day 1 in Toronto. He's a different player without a genuine #2 like DeRozan. imo it's why he struggled getting off the bench in Memphis and Houston.
So I think it's more fair to compare Lowry without DeRozan to Kyrie without LeBron. I'd take Kyrie.
Kyrie with a genuine #2 option? I'd definitely take Kyrie. The fact that Kyrie's first genuine #2 option is also possibly the GOAT is just icing on the cake.
Even if I was to accept your argument with all its factual and logical inconsistencies, the question isn't who is better. The question is if they are close enough in talent to justify a non-Cavs fan saying he would take Lowry. I think Kyrie is better but I also think we exaggerate how much better he is because we underestimate how good a player Lowry is. This is in no way a slight to Kyrie's talents
1. Lowry didn't get a starting gig for a number of reasons including not having pulled together his talent yet and those teams having a log jam at point guard position. In any case, the player he is today is different from what he was back then. We are comparing 2016 Lowry to Kyrie. Who he was in houston is now irrelevant to present day comparisons. Not every player has the same development curve.
2. You think Derozan is a legit second option comparable to lebron? You then go on to call Lebron a second option to Kyrie to validate the comparison. Now you're just stretching logic. Kyrie is the second option who feeds off of the defensive attention Lebron demands not the other way round. There's no parallel comparison here. Lowry would need to play with a KD to even make this fair
3. Even if I was to accept your argument with all its factual and logical inconsistencies, the question isn't who is better. The question is if they are close enough in talent to justify a non-Cavs fan saying he would take Lowry. I think Kyrie is better but I also think we exaggerate how much better he is because we underestimate how good a player Lowry is. This is in no way a slight to Kyrie's talents