Kyrie Irving

[MRMsix6]

I would take Kyrie over Wall right now.

 

[tristan+kyrie=$]

I would take Kyrie over Wall right now.

ur right man...I would actually take Irving over Wall now as well...my bad

 

[The Process God]

A top 7 pick in this year's draft? A ton ten in this year's draft and a top 20 in next year's draft? I'd cry myself to sleep if we only get a pick in the 7th-10th range and a 20th pick or even the 15th pick in the 2013 draft. At that rate, we'd be stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity forever with the talent that we would get with those picks. We need better picks so that we can acquire better talent. We at the bare minimum need a top 5 if not top 3 pick this year, and it would be a shame not to get a second 2012 lottery pick to grab one of the great talents that can be had later in the 2012 draft than any other draft in recent history.

Kyrie will be an all-star, and Tristan might even be an all-star if he puts work in, but we're going to need some serious talent to beat teams like OKC, Chicago, Miami, NY, LAC, and so on.

Anyhow.

I'm already excited to see what Kyrie can do once he gains his strength back and even improves upon it. I'm very much against the notion that a 40" vertical cannot be taught and that only people who can naturally jump that high without much work can gain significant athleticism. It'll be exciting to see just how much better Kyrie and Tristan will be once they get their man's bodies and maximize their strength. It still amazes me how out-of-shape Kyrie is, yet how good he's been playing. I guess we'll have to wait until next season to see significant improvements in this.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

I have loved what I have seen from Kyrie so far.

Some positives off the top of my head:

1. Trying to take over down the stretch - No fear
2. Ball handling hasn't been as good as I have hoped for, but it is still way, way above average. My expectations here may have been too high.
3. Decision making - Has been very good so far.
4. Passing - Has been even better than I hoped for. He has made some really nice passes. Unfortunately, a lot of them go unnoticed because his teammates can't convert.
5. Mid range game - Mid range jumper and his floater have looked great so far. I love PG's that can shoot the floater. Kyrie will need it too because he isn't going to jump over people like Rose, Westbrook, etc.

Some negatives off the top of me head:

1. The deep jumper - Has hit a few deep shots, but hasn't really shown it yet. There have been quite a few times the defender has gone under the pick and roll and I was hoping Kyrie would make him pay by hitting the wide open deep jumper, but he hasn't been taking them. Not sure if this is a lack of confidence or if Scott doesn't want him shooting that shot just yet.

2. Defense - The last two games were much better than the first 3 games, but I still want to see a lot of improvement in this area.

3. Conditioning- It seems obvious he is tired at the end of games. Could be why he missed the late free throws and the game winning layup. I just have a hard time believing he is that out of shape. He plays the first 7 minutes or so of the 3rd quarter, then sits for about 10 minutes of game time, which is what, probably 20+ minutes real time. Then he comes back out for the last 7 minutes or so. He shouldn't be that tired IMO even if he isn't in unbelievable shape right now. This will obviously improve, but he needs to get to work on it.

 

[Mdog1]

I can't really add much to this conversation other than to say that I have noticed improvement in Kyrie every single game so far. He missed that shot, and I truly believe that may be the best thing for his development. We've seen what to much success to early can do to a player first hand. Irving hits that shot and he is a top story on ESPN. If Irving had a good big man to dump the ball to he would be averaging 10 or more assists easily imo.

The best part of Kyrie's game imo is his pace. He truly controls the pace of the game like few players have ever been able to. If Kyrie can hit a few shots and pass the ball at an elite level than he will be one of the best points to ever play the game. I don't think a PG can be the best player on a championship team, but they certainly are of huge importance, especially if we can get Andre Drummond who does have the potential to be the best player on a championship team.

 

[Triumph36]

Unlike Lebron James.... and I don't say this to be spiteful or bitter, unlike Lebron, he will make the other players on the court better and the team better and moe cohesive when he is on the court. That is something you can't teach or coach. It's something that relatively few in the game truly have, even amongst the greats. Something that the Jason Kidd's, Larry Bird's, Michael Jordan's, Magic Johnson's have and that certain something that Wilt Chamberlain, Lebron James, although immensely gifted and dominating... Lacked.

wait LeBron doesn't make his teammates better and more cohesive when he's on the court? lol! now I've heard everything.

I would take Kyrie over Wall right now.

that's not unreasonable. wall can't make anything other than layups on offense and doesn't give enough effort on defense. throwing up gang signs isn't exactly an indicator of excellent character, either.

while i think the cavs are going to be a team that massively overvalues character, i think the wiz are a good example of the exact opposite. that team is such a mess, not ust on the court but also personality-wise. i don't see them ever really becoming a quality, contender. just a team with a lot of individual talent but no team players with the best players leaving a lot to be desired up in the noggin.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

LeBron making his teammates better was always way overhyped IMO. Why is it that almost everybody that came to the Cavs suddenly became worse? His constant holding of the ball made other people worse. I don't care what anybody says. Ball movement stopped once LeBron touched the ball at the top of the key. He put teammates in bad situations all the time by waiting and waiting, then finally driving and passing to a teammate with 1-2 secs on the clock who then had to force up a jumper right away. It is a coincidence? I don't know, but he was definitely overhyped in that area.

Most of LeBron's assists usually came from drive and kicks for deep jumpers. Rarely was he setting up other people for easy shots in the paint like we have already seen Kyrie do quite a few times.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

I would take Kyrie over Wall right now.

Agreed. Wall can't shoot, defend, has a low b-ball IQ, and struggles in halfcourt sets. He can always improve, but he seems like a stat padder on bad teams.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

We are building our core with a team concept threaded throughout. Getting the 'orchestrator' ... The leader and coach on the court in place at the very beginning makes it all the more favorable that this team will be built properly, and with the right type of person at it's core. The innate intangibles that Kyrie brings to the court and team far outweighs the physical gifts he has within him, which will make him all the more dominating of a force. When we drafted him I knew we were getting the best player in this draft, and a player that would be #1 or real close in just about any draft... But he's better than I expected. I was told he was poilseed/refined/developed beyond his years in terms of his ballhandling with either hand. Was told he was 'character plus' as a human being. But, even being out of shape and not even close to where he will eventually be as far as his the physical dynamic he will eventually bring to his game... He's got lots more than I had anticipated. He's quicker, faster ... Just e better overall athlete than I had anticipated. He will be a far more dominating and impactful than I had anticipated. Unlike Lebron James.... and I don't say this to be spiteful or bitter, unlike Lebron, he will make the other players on the court better and the team better and moe cohesive when he is on the court. That is something you can't teach or coach. It's something that relatively few in the game truly have, even amongst the greats. Something that the Jason Kidd's, Larry Bird's, Michael Jordan's, Magic Johnson's have and that certain something that Wilt Chamberlain, Lebron James, although immensely gifted and dominating... Lacked.

Sorry for going off-topic, but this is false . Lebron was a miracle worker when it came to playing with below-average talent. There is a reason we only won 19 games the season after he left. Im not diagreeing about Kyrie making teammates look better in the future. But saying Lebron doesn't make his teammates look better isn't correct.

 

[MRMsix6]

To be fair to Wall, he's in a pretty terrible situation, and I just don't think he has the mental make-up to to rise above it. That team needs some smarter players and a hell of a lot more discipline.

 

[Kouki]

LeBron froze out entire offenses for 20 seconds on the shot clock and then maybe dished it off for a last second shot. He had to much potential to make his teammates better but he didn't as well as he could have.

 

[MRMsix6]

There are plenty of areas on RCF to talk about LeBron. This isn't one of them.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

LeBron froze out entire offenses for 20 seconds on the shot clock and then maybe dished it off for a last second shot. He had to much potential to make his teammates better but he didn't as well as he could have.

What people don't understand is that Lebron's teammates couldn't create their own offense. There is a reason why anytime Lebron was on the bench, we lost the lead or lost in the games he didn't play. What Cavs players went on to do great things after leaving the Cavs? Boozer is the only one really and a lot of that was because Jerry Sloan's offense is build around a scoring PF. Shannon Brown was a decent role player for the Lakers. Am I missing anyone else?

 

[chrisrich91]

wait LeBron doesn't make his teammates better and more cohesive when he's on the court? lol! now I've heard everything.

Read what is posted below. If you watched LeBron here since 2003 then I don't know what to tell you. The only people that consistently pointed to LeBron making his teammates better was ESPN/TNT and they had no idea what they were talking about.

LeBron making his teammates better was always way overhyped IMO. Why is it that almost everybody that came to the Cavs suddenly became worse? His constant holding of the ball made other people worse. I don't care what anybody says. Ball movement stopped once LeBron touched the ball at the top of the key. He put teammates in bad situations all the time by waiting and waiting, then finally driving and passing to a teammate with 1-2 secs on the clock who then had to force up a jumper right away. It is a coincidence? I don't know, but he was definitely overhyped in that area.

Most of LeBron's assists usually came from drive and kicks for deep jumpers. Rarely was he setting up other people for easy shots in the paint like we have already seen Kyrie do quite a few times.

Triumph, quit being a sports hipster.

 

[RikSmits]

To get back on topic, Galinari just missed an easier layup to tie the game at the end than Kyrie did.
Stuff happens.