Kyrie Irving

[chrisrich91]

What people don't understand is that Lebron's teammates couldn't create their own offense. There is a reason why anytime Lebron was on the bench, we lost the lead or lost in the games he didn't play. What Cavs players went on to do great things after leaving the Cavs? Boozer is the only one really and a lot of that was because Jerry Sloan's offense is build around a scoring PF. Shannon Brown was a decent role player for the Lakers. Am I missing anyone else?

How about Larry Hughes getting here then blowing? Jamison was having a decent year before he came here and shit the bed (obviously he's gotten worse after LeBron left and he's trying to be the #1 guy). The fact is, one dimensional spot up shooters get open looks with LeBron. Doesn't make them any better. Players who are multi-dimensional struggle immensely with the way LeBron dominates the ball and only passes after it's clear he can't get himself the shot.

Kyrie is showing glimpses that he's going to be the PG who puts his teammates in positions to succeed, not merely drive and kick for open 3s. I can't wait until we get some actual wing talent and a dynamic scoring big around him. That's when he will ascend.

 

[Triumph36]

Read what is posted below. If you watched LeBron here since 2003 then I don't know what to tell you. The only people that consistently pointed to LeBron making his teammates better was ESPN/TNT and they had no idea what they were talking about.



Triumph, quit being a sports hipster.

I never said LeBron's ability to make his teammates better wasn't overhyped. I simply said he did make them better. To what degree is the part that is up for debate.

No worries tho, we have Kyrie Irving now and he IS going to be a superstar!

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

How about Larry Hughes getting here then blowing? Jamison was having a decent year before he came here and shit the bed (obviously he's gotten worse after LeBron left and he's trying to be the #1 guy). The fact is, one dimensional spot up shooters get open looks with LeBron. Doesn't make them any better. Players who are multi-dimensional struggle immensely with the way LeBron dominates the ball and only passes after it's clear he can't get himself the shot.

Kyrie is showing glimpses that he's going to be the PG who puts his teammates in positions to succeed, not merely drive and kick for open 3s. I can't wait until we get some actual wing talent and a dynamic scoring big around him. That's when he will ascend.

Larry Hughes never became a better player after leaving Cleveland. He got overrated padding his stats on that Wizards teams that played at fast pace. He proceeded to play on the slowest team in the NBA where he wouldn't be the primary ball-handler. He went on to do nothing for Chicago, New York, and Charlotte. Same with Jamison, he got free reign to shoot on those terrible Wizards teams and was never able to adjust playing for a team that actually played winning basketball. All I know is Lebron went on a team with a ball-dominant player in Wade, and came in 2nd for MVP voting. And is off to an ever better this start this season. Im not saying we should forgive Lebron for The Decision, but I feel there a lot of false things that get said about his game a lot.

 

[Kouki]

There are plenty of areas on RCF to talk about LeBron. This isn't one of them.

^

 

[MDLT]

What people don't understand is that Lebron's teammates couldn't create their own offense. There is a reason why anytime Lebron was on the bench, we lost the lead or lost in the games he didn't play. What Cavs players went on to do great things after leaving the Cavs? Boozer is the only one really and a lot of that was because Jerry Sloan's offense is build around a scoring PF. Shannon Brown was a decent role player for the Lakers. Am I missing anyone else?

I think the jury's still out on James' making his teammates better. He undoubtedly makes the team better in the sense that he's such a dominating force that the team is going to succeed, but nobody in Miami is really better because of James. Wade is who is he is, as is Bosh. I don't really see anyone getting better in MIA b/c of James - its the team record that is better b/c he's great player himself.

The lack of ball movement and the need to constantly get the home run/highlight assist always seemed to drag players down.

I'd also submit that simply b/c no one got better after leaving Cleveland doesn't prove much -- it probably only proves those players aren't very good. The ones that were good here were good after and the ones that weren't good here are still not good. Off the top of my head though, Jones and Marshall got worse here, same with Hughes.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

I think the jury's still out on James' making his teammates better. He undoubtedly makes the team better in the sense that he's such a dominating force that the team is going to succeed, but nobody in Miami is really better because of James. Wade is who is he is, as is Bosh. I don't really see anyone getting better in MIA b/c of James - its the team record that is better b/c he's great player himself.

The lack of ball movement and the need to constantly get the home run/highlight assist always seemed to drag players down.

I'd also submit that simply b/c no one got better after leaving Cleveland doesn't prove much -- it probably only proves those players aren't very good. The ones that were good here were good after and the ones that weren't good here are still not good. Off the top of my head though, Jones and Marshall got worse here, same with Hughes.

I read your post and respect your opinion. Im going to drop it now because we have already gone off-topic too much. Because I do get what you are saying. I just don't think the Cavs had any other way to play. I feel with the players we had, Lebron was going to have to work extra hard to get this team to generate offense. It was ugly basketball and it got exposed by the better defensive teams, but with the hand he was dealt (Lebron's supporting cast) I thought he did an impressive job.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

The scary thing about Ky is that we haven't even seen him shoot well yet. The few games I saw him at Duke, I clearly knew he was the best/most polished/ talented player in college and would eventually become the #1 overall pick in the draft.

In the limited time I watched him play at Duke, he was an AWESOME shooter. Like Chauncey Billups good. He had a very simple, compact shooting mechanism with a great loft and rotation under the ball. Once this kid gets his legs underneath him and is in game shape he is going to be even more lethal.

His crossover happens so quickly that about the only person that can guard it would have to be Gary "the glove" Payton. Lol maybe thats an exaggeration, but his crossover is ultra quick, Left or Right. Awesome handle, will have a great assist/turnover ratio.

And as W&G alluded to, Kyrie's assists are true PG assists. LeBron James gets assists because he bulls his way to the lane and kicks out to shooters. He used to be a great passer when he entered the league, but now all he thinks about is his self first.... Go figure.....

So call me FUCKING CRAZY here, but I would rather have my PG be the distributer, able to knife his way through defenders like Derrick Rose, and also be the leader of the team. LeBron James is 6'8 so it's kind of easy for the defense to anticipate where his big body is moving and still be able to respond. Kyrie is small enough to knife through traffic, and shifty enough to break ankles and quite frankly the defense is not gonna know where this kid is going.

I love the fact that the culture is changing here. So long to the days of Punks, Thugs and wannabe ballers. I have long wanted competitive, gritty players that understand the notion that a jump hook is worth the same amount of points as a windmill jam.

 

[NarlCavs]

Irving is the Cavs most well rounded PG since Terrell Brandon. He's a great core piece for this franchise going forward. I still believe that unless you have a dominant superstar at another position you need quality players at PG and C. Cavs are now set at PG.

Hate to bring up our former SF again but I do agree his playmaking ability and ability to make players better is overrated. The overwhelming majority of players brought in during that period all saw their numbers drop from where they were previously. Most importantly their shooting percentages dropped too. The player we saw on the 2007 Finals team wasn't the player we saw his last 3 years here.

 

[Kouki]

Cause some of you might have missed in the fast-moving game thread, this is pretty badass (from Joe Gabriele's post-game report):

Only three games into the season, an Indiana reporter took the stupid question of the year prize – asking Kyrie Irving “how (he was) doing after missing the game-winning shot.” A calm, collected Irving snugged his necktie and responded, “I’m doing well. How are you?”

 

[Shadowman113]

I don't know what he's going to become by even the end of the season but Irving will be very good NBA player and I have my money on him becoming the rookie of the year. Leading more in the past two games v.s the opener is good for him. Scott has trusted him in the clutch against the Rapters and the Pacers which is much more fun to watch than Jamison.

 

[Jon]

What it comes down to is that James is better in most areas than his teammates. So he tended to take over in those areas leaving them to do whatever was left. It did in fact make the team stronger, but Phil Jackson saw the fallacy in the "one man team" long ago and I never understood why the Cavs went down the path that Phil spent most of his life trying to avoid. James is not a PG and that has significant implications, but he did make his teammates more efficient.

 

["MVP"]

I'm in the same boat as W&G in that Irving has already exceeded my early expectations for him. Gotta remember, the kid played in just 11 games last year at Duke and was told by the Cavs staff to take it easy in the off-season to allow his toe to fully heal. After all of that, sure his shot may be a little off through three games, but he has showed an incredible amount of talent thus far with an extremely high basketball IQ, more so than Wall showed last year or even Derrick Rose in his rookie year. And I'm tired of people saying that because he doesn't have the elite athleticism, he will never become a top 3 or so point guard... What about Billups, Kidd, Nash, CP3, Deron Willams, etc!?! I'd take talent with work ethic over athleticism any day of the week!

We have a real star in the making here and it's going to be fun watching him develop over the next few years.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I've been really impressed with Kyrie as well. Even after watching him during his limited time at Duke, you could tell he had "it," that innate feel for the game that all great PG's have. Kyrie does a great job of driving to set up his teammates. Of course he can get to the basket himself, but he's really good at using a stutter-step or a hesitation dribble to draw a defender and then drop it off to an open teammate. His assist numbers will only go up as these guys get used to playing with a PG who can actually get them the ball in places to score.

His jumper and his d will only get better once he gets into better shape. I think he just simply doesn't have his legs under him yet so he doesn't quite have the lift on his jumper or the energy needed to play consistent d. Get the conditioning up and I would expect both to improve.

There is one thing I have noticed so far though. He gives up his dribble way too early, especially on the perimeter. There's been numerous times I've seen him come off a screen around the 3pt line, take two dribbles, and pick the ball up. He really needs to keep that dribble alive because many times lanes are created either from defenders switching or the rolling man drawing defenders. I expect this is something that will get corrected rather soon, but it just jumped out to me because he has such a good feel for the rest of the game.

All in all though, Kyrie has me really excited. Having him first is going to greatly ease the transition for any young guys the Cavs bring in. Once he gets his shooting stroke fully back, he's going to be extremely tough for anyone to defend.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

There is one thing I have noticed so far though. He gives up his dribble way too early, especially on the perimeter. There's been numerous times I've seen him come off a screen around the 3pt line, take two dribbles, and pick the ball up. He really needs to keep that dribble alive because many times lanes are created either from defenders switching or the rolling man drawing defenders. I expect this is something that will get corrected rather soon, but it just jumped out to me because he has such a good feel for the rest of the game.

He pretty clearly worked hard in game 3 to cut that out, because it was noticeable in games one and two, but the problem seemed to lighten if not disappear in game 3.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

The scary thing about Ky is that we haven't even seen him shoot well yet. The few games I saw him at Duke, I clearly knew he was the best/most polished/ talented player in college and would eventually become the #1 overall pick in the draft.

In the limited time I watched him play at Duke, he was an AWESOME shooter. Like Chauncey Billups good. He had a very simple, compact shooting mechanism with a great loft and rotation under the ball. Once this kid gets his legs underneath him and is in game shape he is going to be even more lethal.

His crossover happens so quickly that about the only person that can guard it would have to be Gary "the glove" Payton. Lol maybe thats an exaggeration, but his crossover is ultra quick, Left or Right. Awesome handle, will have a great assist/turnover ratio.

And as W&G alluded to, Kyrie's assists are true PG assists. LeBron James gets assists because he bulls his way to the lane and kicks out to shooters. He used to be a great passer when he entered the league, but now all he thinks about is his self first.... Go figure.....

So call me FUCKING CRAZY here, but I would rather have my PG be the distributer, able to knife his way through defenders like Derrick Rose, and also be the leader of the team. LeBron James is 6'8 so it's kind of easy for the defense to anticipate where his big body is moving and still be able to respond. Kyrie is small enough to knife through traffic, and shifty enough to break ankles and quite frankly the defense is not gonna know where this kid is going.

I love the fact that the culture is changing here. So long to the days of Punks, Thugs and wannabe ballers. I have long wanted competitive, gritty players that understand the notion that a jump hook is worth the same amount of points as a windmill jam.

What I like about the current rebuild as opposed to the 2004-10 is that we are not going to be beholden to any one player. People said during the buildup to last year's draft that Cavs' fans shouldn't expect a 'savior' for the franchise.

Frankly, I didn't really want that kind of player who dominates everything from the city to the headlines to the ball. I wanted a really good potentially great point guard... One guy of the five that are on the floor that is good enough at his position to put us back on the path to being contenders.

I believe that is exactly what we have in Kyrie. We may also have a long term presence on the block, both offensively and defensively given time in Tristan. Hell, I even think that Alonzo Gee and Samardo Samuels show enough potentially to possibly be role players on a contending team eventually.

That is really what this thing should be about... Not hoping and praying that you land a 'savior,' but building a great team, position-by-position. No one player should have as much control and overwhelming power as James did during his time here. We lived and died based on the whims of a 20-something diva.

Give me a completely solid, potentially all-star point guard as the first piece in what should become a beautifully constructed puzzle. That way, if one guy decides he likes the clubs in South Beach over the blue collar quaintness of Northeastern Ohio, it doesn't devastate the franchise.

I feel like we need to be really bad for maybe one more season. Then, we will have true team that is solid 1-through-5.

One thing I know for sure after these first three games... We made the right choice in Kyrie and our point guard position is now in good hands, long term. That is a pretty important check off of the proverbial list.