Kyrie Irving

[MalTalm]

He won't take the QO. My guess is, when people say the Cavs may not offer him a max deal, they mean the 5 year max. He'll still be offered a 3 year max contract, likely with a player option for year 4, meaning if the Cavs don't trade him he's here for 4 more years. I would be shocked if he hit free agency a day earlier than that, it would cost him a ton of money with the way the NBA salary cap is structured.

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[sailfish]

If only we can find that switch that Kyrie can turn on that makes him just downright dominant, turn it on, and break off the switch, that'd be great.

[video=youtube;G5RT3gXX2gc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5RT3gXX2gc[/video]

I'll never forget that game. He just picked apart one of the best teams in the league, and there was nothing the entire team could do about him.
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One way or another, we WILL have a team around Kyrie that is AT LEAST capable of making the playoffs if not much more next season. He will have no excuse not to perform next season.

I agree that when Kyrie is motivated & feels that he has something to prove, he can be very good. The problem is 'dominant Kyrie' only appears maybe 5x per year, as he did in the All Star game and against OKC. There have typically been lots of lackluster efforts in between. I'm not sure if the problem is immaturity, a lack of motivation, or what.

The Cavaliers brass needs to sit down with him and find out if he wants to be here and if he's committed to winning in Cleveland. If not, then they absolutely have to look into trades for him.

 

[gourimoko]

it's easy to have principles when you're not the one risking losing out on 8 figures because of some fictitious grudge.

I thought you got banned??

Anyway, re-read what I wrote. What you said has nothing to do with what I said. You're saying we shouldn't offer him an extension when he's ready to sign one because he'll assuredly sign said extension while 1-year out from unrestricted free agency. It is easy to imagine a situation where Kyrie determines his annual net income would increase by changing venues. That's the point of the post that you seem to miss.

In essence, everyone talks about how LeBron left money on the table... He didn't. He recouped that money over the duration of his contract almost in taxes alone (assuming he was going to leave and go to one of the more likely destinations). I even plotted this out in another thread, year for year his earnings in various states.

It's just not as simple as "he's losing millions." Doesn't work that way. And as far as grudges are concerned, that isn't the point. The point is that if my team doesn't offer me an extension when they have the opportunity, then I'll want to look for another situation where I may have higher value. Because my poor play could be because of Cleveland's mismanagement, not because of me.

 

[gregdawg]

i say get rid of Kyrie ASAP. he doesn't want to stay here - all the signs are there that he has no interest in Cleveland. before Lebron left, all the signs were there that he didn't want to stay, but the organization ignored them and got nothing for Lebron - they could have traded him and got something significant in return.

just trade Kyrie now and don't let it become a distraction any longer. you know he doesn't want to stay, so just cut the cord and move on. we could probably get a good player for Kyrie and maybe end up a better overall team anyway. plus, kyrie is a bit of a punk and his attitude isn't helping the team chemistry.

 

[gourimoko]

He would be losing out on a ton of money just by leaving, not to mention the 1 year on the discounted QO. If he's ok with that, along with the injury risk that could cost him millions more, then good for him.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That's the point.

For the best players in the league (and most marketable), endorsement money can often eclipse your annual salary, especially over the long haul. LeBron James makes far more money in endorsements than he does on the court - it's why he doesn't give a damn what city he plays in, money isn't the issue! Guys saying "he left money on the table" don't get the full picture. He made money by leaving Cleveland, not the other way round.

Kobe Bryant has raked in hundreds of millions of dollars, not simply because he was the best player (because for much of his career he wasn't, Shaq was), but because he's in Los Angeles.

If Irving thinks he is potentially missing out on endorsement revenue by remaining in Cleveland, then it makes sense that he would have an expectation that Cleveland would be willing to pay max money early in his career in order to keep him here. If Cleveland is not willing to offer him a supermax 5-year extension and instead wants to wait (injury risk to Irving be damned) to offer anything but the Rose Rule max (assuming he qualifies), then Irving would have every right to want to leave and I wouldn't blame him.

But with regards to money, players like Durant and Howard (I use them because people will moan about LeBron and Kobe) have made tens of millions of dollars in endorsements due to national exposure and having a likable personality. In 2011, Dwayne Wade made equal amounts in salary and annual endorsement revenue. In that same year, Melo and Amar'e both raked in $8M annually in endorsement deals.

So what's the point? The point is that if Irving goes to New York or Los Angeles, he's likely to be their franchise player. In such a situation, he may be offered up-front deals to compensate for any loss. Kyrie has to be looking at his current endorsements, which are many, and wondering if he can't get better (higher paying) deals in the same way Jeremy Lin did when he went to the Rockets.

Cleveland should not put itself in such an easily avoidable position by not locking up it's franchise player now, simply because we happen to have the #1 draft pick who has yet to play a single NBA game.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That's the point.

I agree, though that still cuts both ways. Leaving means he loses out on more guaranteed money, so it could depend on how risk-averse he is when it comes to $$$.

 

[gourimoko]

I agree, though that still cuts both ways. Leaving means he loses out on more guaranteed money, so it could depend on how risk-averse he is when it comes to $$$.

This is true, but depending upon how his endorsement deals are structured, it may be covered all the same. He can negotiate and sign such deals while under contract as well, so it isn't as if he'd be operating in the dark.

All that would need to happen is for New York to clear cap space and make it known through the media that they are targeting Kyrie Irving. That would easily get the ball rolling towards his departure.

So we can't just say "he'd lose money." Because if he goes to New York or Los Angeles, I seriously doubt he'd lose anything, in fact, the reverse may be true over the course of his career.

 

[tsteele316]

I thought you got banned??

Anyway, re-read what I wrote. What you said has nothing to do with what I said. You're saying we shouldn't offer him an extension when he's ready to sign one because he'll assuredly sign said extension while 1-year out from unrestricted free agency. It is easy to imagine a situation where Kyrie determines his annual net income would increase by changing venues. That's the point of the post that you seem to miss.

In essence, everyone talks about how LeBron left money on the table... He didn't. He recouped that money over the duration of his contract almost in taxes alone (assuming he was going to leave and go to one of the more likely destinations). I even plotted this out in another thread, year for year his earnings in various states.

It's just not as simple as "he's losing millions." Doesn't work that way. And as far as grudges are concerned, that isn't the point. The point is that if my team doesn't offer me an extension when they have the opportunity, then I'll want to look for another situation where I may have higher value. Because my poor play could be because of Cleveland's mismanagement, not because of me.

first, not sure why you thought I was banned. that's just juvenile banter on your part. secondly, at no point did I say cleveland shouldn't offer him a max deal. i only addressed your misguided notion that cleveland would somehow be at risk to losing irving because he would risk leaving tens of millions on the table because he wasn't offered a max right away due to nothing more than hurt feelings on his part. it's a nice high horse to sit on when it's not your money being risked.

 

[Derek]

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That's the point.

For the best players in the league (and most marketable), endorsement money can often eclipse your annual salary, especially over the long haul. LeBron James makes far more money in endorsements than he does on the court - it's why he doesn't give a damn what city he plays in, money isn't the issue! Guys saying "he left money on the table" don't get the full picture. He made money by leaving Cleveland, not the other way round.

Kobe Bryant has raked in hundreds of millions of dollars, not simply because he was the best player (because for much of his career he wasn't, Shaq was), but because he's in Los Angeles.

If Irving thinks he is potentially missing out on endorsement revenue by remaining in Cleveland, then it makes sense that he would have an expectation that Cleveland would be willing to pay max money early in his career in order to keep him here. If Cleveland is not willing to offer him a supermax 5-year extension and instead wants to wait (injury risk to Irving be damned) to offer anything but the Rose Rule max (assuming he qualifies), then Irving would have every right to want to leave and I wouldn't blame him.

But with regards to money, players like Durant and Howard (I use them because people will moan about LeBron and Kobe) have made tens of millions of dollars in endorsements due to national exposure and having a likable personality. In 2011, Dwayne Wade made equal amounts in salary and annual endorsement revenue. In that same year, Melo and Amar'e both raked in $8M annually in endorsement deals.

So what's the point? The point is that if Irving goes to New York or Los Angeles, he's likely to be their franchise player. In such a situation, he may be offered up-front deals to compensate for any loss. Kyrie has to be looking at his current endorsements, which are many, and wondering if he can't get better (higher paying) deals in the same way Jeremy Lin did when he went to the Rockets.

Cleveland should not put itself in such an easily avoidable position by not locking up it's franchise player now, simply because we happen to have the #1 draft pick who has yet to play a single NBA game.

It's still a big risk, and there's no guarantee that he'll make up that money in endorsements or that he couldn't get those endorsements here. Also, I don't believe anybody has said that we shouldn't lock him up now because we have the #1 pick. If they have, that's just silly.

 

[sailfish]

i say get rid of Kyrie ASAP. he doesn't want to stay here - all the signs are there that he has no interest in Cleveland. before Lebron left, all the signs were there that he didn't want to stay, but the organization ignored them and got nothing for Lebron - they could have traded him and got something significant in return.

just trade Kyrie now and don't let it become a distraction any longer. you know he doesn't want to stay, so just cut the cord and move on. we could probably get a good player for Kyrie and maybe end up a better overall team anyway. plus, kyrie is a bit of a punk and his attitude isn't helping the team chemistry.

I'm with you. We have to hope that the Cavaliers learned from being burnt by LeBron James. If Kyrie wants out then they need to trade him and we should be able to get a nice haul for one of the top young PG's in the game. Heck, even if Kyrie is willing to sign an extension, but he demands an opt out after 3 years, I still tell him to take a hike. That's the exact same crap LeBron pulled.

 

[gourimoko]

first, not sure why you thought I was banned. that's just juvenile banter on your part.

I dunno... maybe it just seems like you should have been banned??

secondly, at no point did I say cleveland shouldn't offer him a max deal. i only addressed your misguided notion that cleveland would somehow be at risk to losing irving because he would risk leaving tens of millions on the table because he wasn't offered a max right away due to nothing more than hurt feelings on his part. it's a nice high horse to sit on when it's not your money being risked.

There's like 2 posts ahead of this one that you obviously didn't read.

Will make it short (not something I'm good at): Kyrie may not lose money by leaving Cleveland. Players of his caliber, and how well liked he is (has many endorsement deals, with many large companies, just not large ones) can make $10+ annually in endorsements depending upon their market.

Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Steph Curry, and Jeremy Lin are just a few examples of this. Endorsements for these players is/was just as important, if not more so long-term, than their NBA salary which will not fluctuate by much over the course of their career.

For example, take Melo out of New York and he is likely to lose a tremendous amount of money annually, whether he is traded or not. Put Kyrie there, and is annual earnings could potentially go through the roof; especially if he can make them serious contenders.

That's why midmarket teams like Cleveland shouldn't play chicken, especially publicly, with borderline superstar players that we hope to retain.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

Lebron lost money, movie deals and endorsements leaving Cleveland. He was radioactive for a bit there.

Making more money in a larger market has also been proven wrong I believe. Carmelo doesn't need NYC, winning is more important to his endorsements/outside basketball money making opportunities.

 

[gourimoko]

It's still a big risk, and there's no guarantee that he'll make up that money in endorsements or that he couldn't get those endorsements here.

The guarantee can be made. Nike, Coca-Cola, etc, can talk to Irving at any time and about anything. If I'm Nike, I'm advising Irving to leave. I'm telling his father, "the best thing for your son is to get out of Cleveland." These influences exist, and yes, they can guarantee the money would be made back, contractually.

Also, I don't believe anybody has said that we shouldn't lock him up now because we have the #1 pick. If they have, that's just silly.

I just question this thought process that you dangle the extension in front of your supposed franchise player... He's our best and brightest, yet some of us don't want to offer him the Rose Rule max, a supermax contract that must be earned by performance and accolades and not simply given away by franchises?

It simply does not benefit us, in anyway, to snub Kyrie. If we aren't going to offer the supermax, then trade him; but even then, that's a really bad idea.

 

[DELONTEizDad]

The guarantee can be made. Nike, Coca-Cola, etc, can talk to Irving at any time and about anything. If I'm Nike, I'm advising Irving to leave. I'm telling his father, "the best thing for your son is to get out of Cleveland." These influences exist, and yes, they can guarantee the money would be made back, contractually.

Kyrie already has already had the "Uncle Drew" campaign with Pepsi and a pretty big deal with Nike.

He's not going to get bigger deals anywhere else until he starts winning.


Lebron went national in Cleveland, so did Kyrie, Peyton Hillis made the cover of Madden, Johnny Manziel is a cash machine. The world is tiny now. Markets don't matter as much as you apparently think they do.

 

[gourimoko]

Lebron lost money, movie deals and endorsements leaving Cleveland. He was radioactive for a bit there.

He made that money back in Miami. Had he stayed in Cleveland, I don't think he'd have gone to the Finals 4 times in a row. So not many people still care about The Decision around the country let alone worldwide.

Anecdotelly, here in the Philippines, I dunno why, but you see a lot of people wearing basketball jerseys. Whose name is predominantly on those jerseys? James #6.

Making more money in a larger market has also been proven wrong I believe.

Nah... prove it.

Carmelo doesn't need NYC, winning is more important to his endorsements/outside basketball money making opportunities.

Melo's endorsements went up in New York while losing more games. Amare Stoudemire inked an $8M/yr series of deals in 2011 that were only offered because he was in New York. The size of the deal is directly relative to your audience. While James is a worldwide star, and thus where he plays is less relevant to who he plays with; guys like Paul, Melo, Griffin, benefit drastically due to playing in markets with tens of millions of viewers.

Advertisers don't just hand money to guys who are winning. It's all relative to how many people saw you win, or at least saw you attempt to win.