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Kyrie Irving

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Yes, absolutely and it needs to or this team won't be successful. That's really my only complaint right now with his play.

I can forgive his pretty awful defense if he initiated the offensive sets and involved his teammates but right now a much less talented Mathew Dellavedova is running circles around him in that department.

Kevin Love agrees with me.
Tristans shooting 54% AV shooting 58%. that was 21 points a game from the center position. Love has no problems getting the ball on the perimeter but the post is where Love thinks he should be getting the ball more.

Meanwhile Love in his opportunities under the basketb has been mediocre. I dont think the "problem" is one sided. Love cant run down the court and expect everyone to go out of their way to get the ball to him and he has to be willing to to make the blue collar plays. i dont think he understands that yet.
 
Tristans shooting 54% AV shooting 58%. that was 21 points a game from the center position. Love has no problems getting the ball on the perimeter but the post is where Love thinks he should be getting the ball more.

Meanwhile Love in his opportunities under the basketb has been mediocre. I dont think the "problem" is one sided. Love cant run down the court and expect everyone to go out of their way to get the ball to him and he has to be willing to to make the blue collar plays. i dont think he understands that yet.

Yeah I'm not sure what the shooting percentages of our centers has to do with anything in regards to my posts dealing with Kyrie specifically during the Memphis game without LeBron James on the floor.

I felt he played a rather telling game and Kevin Love looked frustrated with Kyrie in particular after he dribbled down court and dribbled his way into a shot on multiple occasions. I'm not sure if Kevin Love's post game comments were directed at the offense or Kyrie but it was probably both.

Kyrie needs to understand that keeping his teammates involved and mentally in the game is of the utmost importance.

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Understanding one side of the game doesn't make you a high IQ player either. Kyrie knows how to break down defense and make solo plays for himself, but he's not the type of player who puts the same type of effort when it comes to setting up good shots for his teammates and he's an average defender(I'm just being generous).

He's just not a true "floor general" who knows when to make the right play at the right time. Timing is everything. It's why a lot of players love playing with LeBron because he makes the game easier for them because he knows where each teammates want the ball and when they want it. Kyrie doesn't posses that type of skill and to be fair, only a very few PG's do.

setting lebron james as the bar to be a high iq basketball player is not a very realistic position.

Defense is about effort. it was lear that Irving was never asked to put in effort on the defensive side until last season. when he had to learn to adjust to expending energy on that side of the court. his work really didnt start shoing until fiba. thats not a lack of basketball iQ.

Kyrie appears to have adjusted on how to conserve energy for both sides of the court. this als lends to the belief he will be a more efficient player. i guess the question her s with over 20 different layup moves. the best handles in the game and being an elite shooter how often is setting up his teammates for anything thats not a near automatic score the best basketball play. Kyrie is a fundamentally sound paser but not an elite one. he has the basketball iq to recognize this. This season kyrie will share the floor with more guys that see the floor at the level he does. he will adjust appropriately at some point just as he did with the olympic team

Once again I understand Irvings flaws and shortcoming. I pointed them out when it was against the grain to do so. What I dont see is how that merits labelling him as a low q player when his basketball IQ along with his skills is what makes him an all star
 
Yeah I'm not sure what the shooting percentages of our centers in regards to my posts dealing with Kyrie specifically during the Memphis game without LeBron James on the floor.

I felt he played a rather telling game and Kevin Love looked frustrated with Kyrie in particular after he dribbled down court and dribbled his way into a shot on multiple occasions. I'm not sure if Kevin Love's post game comments were directed at the offense or Kyrie but it was probably both.

Kyrie needs to understand that keeping his teammates involved and mentally in the game is of the utmost importance.

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I think i was pointing out that the ball has been going to the guys best in position to score. Frustration is all part of the Learning Curve. this is a two sided affair. Love wants more inside touches we get it. its not the first time love has been upset after a game against Memphis but is it just a matter of passing him the ball.

“Yeah, the offense is built that way but I just have to make a conscious decision to get myself in there,” Love said. “There are a lot of times where I just find myself fading to the three-point line. For me, it’s a mentality and that’s easy to fix.

even Love admits he has been focused on more on functioning within the offense than getting himself in rhythm.

so it appears that Love agrees with me. if he is gonna get more inside touches he needs to be more aggressive. also notice he isnt complaining about his amount of touches but specifically his inside. he doesnt wanna start out the gate shooting threes.
 
I think i was pointing out that the ball has been going to the guys best in position to score. Frustration is all part of the Learning Curve. this is a two sided affair. Love wants more inside touches we get it. its not the first time love has been upset after a game against Memphis but is it just a matter of passing him the ball.

“Yeah, the offense is built that way but I just have to make a conscious decision to get myself in there,” Love said. “There are a lot of times where I just find myself fading to the three-point line. For me, it’s a mentality and that’s easy to fix.

even Love admits he has been focused on more on functioning within the offense than getting himself in rhythm.

so it appears that Love agrees with me. if he is gonna get more inside touches he needs to be more aggressive. also notice he isnt complaining about his amount of touches but specifically his inside. he doesnt wanna start out the gate shooting threes.

Let's just hope Kyrie can limit the amount of "WTF" gestures he garners from Kevin Love as he sits wide open for a shot or extra pass like what was seen during the Memphis game, hits a cutting Andy, or even just initiates the offense with simple pass.

That would make happy. I believe in the guy.
 
Is it possible that instead of having a low iq or a super high iq for the game, kyrie has essentially a fair/average bball iq. He is not a true floor general like rondo j kidd or Paul, bit guess what he can shoot the ball better than any of those guys could ever hope to at his age and is an elegant scorer. That is an incredibly valuable commodity that a good coach will utilise. It's not like we suffer from a team without bball iq and play making with love lebron Andy dion mike and delly. The team needs play making to function but it is not a prerequisite for it to come from the point guard. I hope that over the year there is a steady decline in 0 pass possessions but it will not be the end of the world if it takes a while to come.
 
Kyrie Irving is an above-average athelete with elite ball-handling, shooting, and finishing skills with a below-average comprehension of basic team basketball and individual defensive tactics. That said, I am excited to see where KI can go given that many of his flaws at this point are both completely predictable due to his youth, and quite fixable.

First, I don't want to gloss over his positives because they are many, but the most important is his ability to get anywhere on the floor he wants on offense. With his elite ball-handling skills, use of the hesitation dribble, and his ability to cut on a dime, no one defender can keep KI from getting to a given point on the court. I liken this ability to Steve Nash who, though less athletic, wiggled his way into the heart of the defense throughout his career as well as any other pg I can remember. The importance of this skill is that the defense is meant to keep you from getting to certain points on the floor and when you go there anyway you draw extra defenders who worry about you being there. When extra defenders come to guard you, the people they leave will be open. Thus far, KI has used this ability to get to his sweet shooting spots, or to finish at the rim. I believe that KI will make a monumental leap to possible MVP candidate if and when he understands that while getting 25 and 6 is good getting 17 and 13 is unstoppable, and begins to use his ability to get where he wants to draw defenders and pass to the awesome talent around him.

Second, KI takes shots early in the shotclock without passing which he should probably not be taking until late in the shotclock if the offensive play has broken down. There is absolutely no problem with KI calling an ISO for himself, but all things being equal, the vast majority of such calls should come off of some sort of action so that people at least touch the ball. This allows players to maintain a feel for the game and the ball (especially important for dynamic players like Kevin love), and allows his superior rebounding frontline to get in position. Just dribbling up top can and will get him space for a reasonably high percentage shot, but it freezes people out, chooses a decent shot without trying for a great shot, and kills our rebounding position. I look for KI to change his approach so that if he wants an ISO he will call it for himself 9/10 times where he will give the ball up and get it back to get all the benefits that I discussed above, while also allowing for an element of surprise when he does break down his man immediately which will really put pressure on a defense who is not expecting that play.

Third, and the last offensive comment, is that KI has and should continue to look to push on every opportunity. The fact is that our open court play should be the best in the league. Lebron is very easily the best open court player in the league in terms of passing or finishing; KI is elite at finishing on the break and has shown a burst of explosive speed this pre-season that I hadn't seen much in prior years (especially in the few end-to-end runs against CHI). When you combine that with his elite ball-handling skills to get around anyone who tries to stop the ball early on the break, and you have a formula for success in the open court. Additionally, Dion should be an above-average open court player with his upper body strength and ball-handling capability, and while he has had his difficulty finishing he is a great third option on the break. Finally, having Kevin Love to trail on the secondary break and TT and AV diving on secondary breaks we really have to look at running at every opportunity. I think KI has been told this and I think he will be downright deadly if he doesn't get lazy in this aspect of the game.

So, on offense, first look to fast break and secondary break, then look to possible pin downs with Kevin Love or one of the other bigs if there is a mouse in the house after the break, and then initiate the offense looking to get a great shot, and only playing hero ball off of action when the shot clock is winding down.

Briefly on KI's defense, the bad news is that he has a few terrible flaws, but the good news is that they are easily fixable. KI's man to man defense on the ball is severly hampered by poor foot work. Instead of sliding left and right, you often see him turn his hips to run with a guy who then crosses him over and has him all the way turned around. Perhaps it is easier said than done, but simply sliding your feet rather than turning and running will correct a lot of his man to man defense on the ball. It doesn't matter that he is not an elite defender, but if he can simply play pedestrian defense, his offense will make him a huge net-gain on the court.

Second, his off-the ball defense suffers from his tendency to lose his man off the ball from paying too much attention to the ball, and attempting bad double teams (sometimes guarding no one). When KI's man gives up the ball and runs around the Court to a corner or wing, KI will often stop at the key and linger for a half-count too long before his man gets the ball back and he is caught having to close out late which is a recipe for disaster. Now, there are times where you as the weakside wing defender have to sink down because a big is giving help on the strong side, but KI does it when there is no need. Simply keeping one eye on his man, and staying closer to him unless called by assignment to do otherwise will cut out a lot of this problem (BTW Dion does this a lot as well).

Lastly, KI has and should continue to improve his play in defending the passing lanes and forcing turnovers in other settings. With Lebron James on the floor you will often get wing defenders who run into trouble on a drive or on the wing or corner which will cause them to make a difficult pass out to a safety valve. If KI can recognize this and play the passing lanes he should get a few steals up top which can lead quickly to fastbreak opporutnities and sure points with this team. As well, look for KI to develop a little bit of Michael Jordan sneak steals in the post. I think that teams probably are aware that running KI through some picks and other action will often get him to sag off which probably causes them to do that more often. When teams are doing this through a low post player, and running KI's guy around the post player, KI should run past, and then come back and swipe down hard at the ball. Obviously, you have to do this sparingly, but it can be effective and should further increase his effectiveness in steals.

I know it was a long one, but I think these are definite areas where I see ready-made improvement just waiting for KI to take advantage. IF he really wants to join the elite level of players in this league and possibly be in the conversation for MVP someday, he has to correct some of the easily correctable holes in his game, and when he does... Look out!
 
You know critics are funny.

Guys like Rondo will never be good cause they can't shoot. Guys like Kyrie will never be good cause they don't have Rondo vision. IMO if this is the criteria Chris Paul is the leagues only good PG. People have to accept that Kyrie is a scoring PG. AND YOU CAN WIN WITH ONE. The Spurs just did it.



It's justfunny how the world works IMO. Rondo gets shitted on for not being Kyrie and Kyrie gets shitted on for not being Rondo lol



As a team yiur job is to take your pieces and make them work. It's not to have a set template of how you'll win and fold when you don't have the players that match it
 
I'm a big critic of Irving's defense but I thought he played great one on one defense on JR Smith on one of the last critical possessions. Smith scored on him but Irving did a great job cutting off the penetration and forcing Smith to a hit a real tough pull up jumper. I can live with that kind of defensive effort.
 
I mean damn. It was one game!
 
Wish he was more aggressive, he waited til the 4th quarter which was too late.
 
I dont know how many times the Kyrie assist average is based on lousy teammates myth has been debunked but it has been debunked on multiple occasions but facilitating has been something that Irving has worked on and while he may be better this season aat it. I am not sure his assist will go up that much as Lebron will also be acting as a facillitator on the court as well. Kyrie will be however the primary option every time he brings the ball down then the offense will kick in if nothing is open.

I think what we will see is less forcing the ball and Kyrie staying engaged in the play after his initial pass.

so I made a Chart and did a ranking of the 22 facilitators with 6 or more assist per game.
Assist
1.Chris Paul Assist 10.7 FGA 14 Assist% 48.8
2.Rajon Rondo Assist 9.8 FGA 11.7 Assist% 47.7
3. John Wall Assist 8.8 FGA 16.3 Assist % 40.5
4. Ty Lawson Assist 8.8 FGA 13 Assist% 38.2
5. Kendall Marshall Assist 8.8 FGA 7.8 Assist % 44.3

Outside of John Wall none of these guys take more than 15 shots a game. and all of them outside TY Lawson are accounting for over 40% of their teams field goals as assist.

Is Kendall Marshall and Ty lawson Elite because they are effective Facilitators?

Not at this point.

Irving is considered elite because of his scoring.

Scoring wise Irving is set up to just blow away the point guard position in offensive efficiencies. now on the other end
FGA of players with 6 or more assist per game. Ill go with True Shot
1. Stephen Curry FGA 17.7 TS% 61
2. Lebron James FGA 17.6 TS% 64.9
3. Kyrie Irving FGA 17.4 TS% 53.3
4. Russell Westbrook FGA 17.2 TS% 54.5
5. James Harden. FGA 16.5 TS% 61.8
6. John Wall FGA 16.3 TS% 52.4

James harden and Lebron James dont play point. so looking at the actual point guards

Wall broke out last year. not sure he can make anything but modest improvements going forward. However Kyrie had a down year and is now surrounded by all star caliber talent.

I look for Irving to post near Curry levels offensively. even if his FGA per game came down and that will make him truly elite even if you think Kendall Marshall and rajon rondo are better point guards because they have higher assist totals.


Now you know dam well KI aka AI part duex is a weal or woe player whom this board blindly gives a pass.

Can he adjust and learn to be a true pg sure.

This year will tell the tale he no longer has any more excuses and those who make them for his game development are just exposing themselves.

He needs accountability and to be held too playing with in a system.

The key is Love should be the first option as he will space the floor properly. Then LBJ as he can see over the top of defenders and pass it back to KI or Dion or Love after the D collapses to stop his penetration. It's KI who has to make the biggest adjustment on this team not Dion.

This loss was great for our team now they will feel the pressure to truly work out a tactically sound system of hierarchy. One that is predicated on wtf a defense gives them instead of hero ball.

It's really that simple.

BTW it's how he played with Dion let's take turns with heat checks. Opposed to someone like Payton in Orlando driving to the rack then pulling it back out or passing to the open man. When was the last time you saw KI do that if he goes to the well he is going to shoot it. He is committed ala all hay makers no jab.

KI is a stud with much room from growth just as is Waiters. The future will be bright once all ego's are subjugated in place of smart IQ'S & chemistry.

I do think that rotation was ill timed by Blatt we were rolling. He should have stayed with that hot line up till they blew the doors off.
 
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KI looked like he could get a shot at the rim, in the lane, or draw a foul any time he wanted to, which will be great for us going forward. Still too much dribbling at times, but he made plays happen.
 
Chucked up some bad shots ignoring team tonight. Didn't run plays
 
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