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Kyrie Irving

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I agree with chrisrich that Kyrie will never be a true 'floor general' like Conley or a Chris Paul. His game and skills demand a focus on scoring. I mean, I have NEVER seen anyone his size who is nearly as good at finishing around the rim in traffic. He puts up layups that are like a spinning trick shot in pool or something -- except instead of standing calmly at a table with a pool cue he's off his feet laying it up with his left hand surrounded by giants swatting at him. That *requires* some focus (i.e. tunnel vision) to pull off.

But he can still work on incorporating a somewhat better ability to check for open guys in that moment after the defense collapses on him, and better selection of his opportunities to drive. He's already doing that better this year. That doesn't require being a full-blown floor general but it will still improve his game.
 
Before Melo got fat, he was a better pure scorer. He could score in every way but Lebron was a more efficient scorer bc of his size and speed.

Melo was never anywhere close to Lebron in scoring. Scoring in more ways does not mean being a better scorer. I don't know where this ridiculous notion started. Melo scores in more ways than Shaq as well...does it mean Melo was a better scorer than Shaq and Wilt? All Shaq was bully people in the post after all.

It's all about how well you can score. Lebron had better scoring volume and much better efficiency. It doesn't matter if he scored in less ways.
 
Melo was never anywhere close to Lebron in scoring. Scoring in more ways does not mean being a better scorer. I don't know where this ridiculous notion started. Melo scores in more ways than Shaq as well...does it mean Melo was a better scorer than Shaq and Wilt? All Shaq was bully people in the post after all.

It's all about how well you can score. Lebron had better scoring volume and much better efficiency. It doesn't matter if he scored in less ways.

I don't disagree, but it is important to be able to score in different ways. If you can only score in one way then a defense can more easily shut you down orake your life hard...see LeBron in playoffs v Celtics, Spurs.
 
What multiple facets do you speak of? I see only one facet that Kyrie has over Russ and thats the 3 ball. Everything is pretty much equal that involves finishing around the rim, taking man off dribble, mid range shot, FT line, i mean where is the second facet to back up your 'multiple'?

I think Russ is the better player right now only because he carried that team much of the season in the tough west with a playoff spot. I never seen Kyrie carry us like he is doing for them until LeBron came. Basically if Kyrie would of willed us to at least and 8th seed once then im not even typing this.

And im not downplaying Kyrie either, im ecstatic we have him locked up and would rather have him over Russ because I've came accustomed to his style of play.



Kyrie is a much more complete scorer, and can do it multitude of ways better than Westbrook can overall. I am not saying he's the better scorer than Westbrook RIGHT NOW, but Kyrie can do it in a lot of different ways than Westbrook can. Basically as a pure offensive talent goes, Kyrie has him beat. His game just hasn't completely evolved yet.

Westbrook does not create separation, not even close to the way Kyrie does.

Westbrook relies on screens in the half court, to get off his shot. He cannot beat guys off the dribble, to get his shot even remotely as good as Kyrie. He's great at beating his guy off of screens, using his athleticism to get to the hoop.

In a half court set, I DO NOT think Westbrook is as good at getting to the basket as Kyrie, because Kyrie's ball handling is so good, he doesn't even need help from screens to get to the hoop. He can burn you to the hoop with hedges, traps, anything without any help, he's that damn good with the ball in his hands.

In full court, Westbrook has Kyrie beat. That's where Westbrook is at his best, attacking the fast break in transition to the hoop, pull up threes, or mid jumpers. He's the best at that. He's devastating and a nightmare to guard that way too.

Kyrie is great in transition too, but not as a great as Westbrook.

When it comes to guards, creating their own offense, no one does it better than Kyrie.

There's not a player in the game, that create separation as good as Kyrie does, just because of his dribbling ability.

He can go right or left better than anyone playing. He can get a shot off against anyone, at any point on the floor, just from his ball handling alone. Balling handling is a very underrated aspect for guards. Kyrie can go anywhere, do anything he wants on the floor, because his ball handling is that good. That changes an entire dynamic of what he can do on the floor, an against whom.

This is why no one can guard Kyrie when he has it going. Big, small, fast, whatever, it doesn't matter. You can't put someone that's faster, stronger, and quicker on Kyrie and think they are going to get an advantage. Because they're not. That's a very rare skill for someone to have in their tool shed, that's very rare. I don't think some of you grasp how rare and special that really is.

There's not a guard as gifted as a scorer as Kyrie. I think he will lead the league in scoring one day. It's going to happen. He's a better shooter than Westbrook, he can get to any place on the floor better than Westbrook can, and his ability to handle the ball is better than Westbrook, and I've never seen a guard that can finish in traffic, with either hand like Kyrie.

Also, speed is so overrated at times with guards. You only truly get to utilize speed in transition. Obviously Kyrie will never be Westbrook, John Wall, or even Derrick Rose in transition. He's not as fast as those guys.

In the half court, where majority of basketball is played out, no one moves better than Kyrie. His ball handling is so good, he can out maneuver guys in tight spaces quicker than anyone in the league, just because of his ball handling skills alone. He is a night mare in the half court! Defenses start back stepping from him, before he even makes his move when he has it going.

He had the entire Spurs team back pedaling on their heals before he was even making his moves, just in preparation of what they knew was coming.

Westbrook can do things Kyrie can't, but if you seriously think there are things that Kyrie does that Westbrook can do just as well, you have no clue what you're talking about.

Kyrie will lead the league in scoring one day. Not a doubt in my mind. He doesn't play like he's 6-3, and he it shows that on the floor. His ability to get a shot off, over anyone, at any time, on any place of the floor, is something like I've never seen before for someone his size.
 
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For Kyrie it's coming down to basketball maturity. His first few years, he had so much talent, at times you could tell he doesn't know exactly what to do with it. He's learning more how to read defenses better, when to attack, when not to attack. Once his game matures even more, and he's still 22, he will be much more devastating than he is now, believe it or not. His game is obviously not at the maturity level as Westbrook's, or Curry's right now..

He's a nightmare with the ball, and there's no defensive scheme that can stop the things he does. The game is starting to slow down more for him, and it will continue to as he grows.

Will he better than Curry and Westbrook? I don't know, that's sometimes difficult to say. But as pure scorer, there's no point guard more gifted than he is in that department.
 
It also must help that this season (going back to the World Basketball tournament) is really the first time since high school that he is a healthy part of a winning team. It is easy to let your growth slow when you are struggling to win games. First on team USA and now with the Cavs he can see the clear rewards of his efforts.
 
Like others have said Kyrie becoming a half court floor general just isn't the way I see him developing over the next 3-4 years. It's kinda difficult to pin-point an offensive skill-set he could improve on since he's so unbelievably adept at scoring which ever way he wants that it's hard to see him really expanding his game that way. I mean, 3 ball? already has it. mid range? fuhged about it. finishing around the rim? really?? floater? Honestly, that's the only shot he doesn't seem elite at yet, so i guess there's that.

My guess is that he continues to work on his athleticism, especially now that LeBron is omn the team, and I also think he's going to truly work on upping defense. Getting better athletically over the next 3 seasons all the while keeping his skills sharp is going to make him an absolute nightmare the opposing offense. So far the only real knock on Kyrie's game was that he never was any super athlete like Russ or Rose or Wall, but make no mistake, his athleticism is where he'll truly seperate himself from Curry.
 
Like others have said Kyrie becoming a half court floor general just isn't the way I see him developing over the next 3-4 years. It's kinda difficult to pin-point an offensive skill-set he could improve on since he's so unbelievably adept at scoring which ever way he wants that it's hard to see him really expanding his game that way. I mean, 3 ball? already has it. mid range? fuhged about it. finishing around the rim? really?? floater? Honestly, that's the only shot he doesn't seem elite at yet, so i guess there's that.

My guess is that he continues to work on his athleticism, especially now that LeBron is omn the team, and I also think he's going to truly work on upping defense. Getting better athletically over the next 3 seasons all the while keeping his skills sharp is going to make him an absolute nightmare the opposing offense. So far the only real knock on Kyrie's game was that he never was any super athlete like Russ or Rose or Wall, but make no mistake, his athleticism is where he'll truly seperate himself from Curry.

I don't think it's really improving on what he can do, but for it to flourish even better.

Kyrie probably should continue to become a better shooter. That's probably the only real skill that usually gets better with age for most players, and with him it's probably not real different.

The one critical aspect, I've always had on Kyrie is that he doesn't always see the floor well. I've mention this in terms of his playmaking skills in the past, but this can contribute to how he attacks offensively at times too.

He's starting to see the floor better, and I think as he gets older, he'll continue to. He's learning how to attack better, and how to utilize his God-given gifts to his advantage much better than he did a year ago.

For Kyrie, the game will continue to get easier for him as he grows. He's learning more on how to attack a defense, instead always making it easier for them by bailing them out. Which he still has a bad tendency to do, but he's done a better job of it this year of breaking out of it more.

One thing I'd like to see him add more of is a pull up floater to his game. We've seen him utilize it before, he has it, but doesn't always use it.

Sometimes Kyrie doesn't have to just attack full steam ahead to the basket, he can just blow by his man, and when the help defense is actually there on time, instead driving the ball into the teeth of the defense (which he still has a bad habit of doing), that's where a pull up floater/jumper is something he can utilize more.

But he can get anywhere on the floor he wants, but sometimes he makes it harder on himself than needed.
 
Agree with everything in your post except I think I would place CP3 ahead of Russ in the point guard rankings. He gets underrated because he's been on top for so long, but he still leads the league in assists, defends at a high level, and runs an offense better than anyone in the league. Plus he's efficient and scores when his team needs him to.

I agree, Paul is still slightly better than Kyrie. I think Curry and Westbrook are above everyone else though. Paul a little better than Kyrie, then I'd have Wall beneath Kyrie.

Let's NOT leave out Tony Parker on merit, but I am just on health. He's not been the same this year. But when healthy, that dude is as good as anyone in this league.

A healthy Tony Parker, I'll take any day over Chris Paul. The guy isn't just part of some great system, the Spurs have no chance unless he's "the guy". They are night and day difference when Parker is on.

If he's healthy, along with the rest of the team, the Spurs to me are still the best team in basketball at this moment.
 
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Another big thing for Kyrie is that his defense has improved about 100 fold. Whether it was due to effort, system, maturity, or a combination, it has been huge. He isn't always consistent on D, but the fact he has shown how good he can be shows how much potential he has.

That is why it is hard to compare Curry, Kyrie, Westbrook, and Cp3. They are all different players and bring different things to the table. Westbrook has a LeBron type play style, likes to play physical and take it inside. Curry's handle has improved to the 2nd best or best in the league and has been huge for him getting space to hit the three. Kyrie has the best handle in the league and best finisher in the paint. Flat out scorer and probably second best shooter at PG behind Curry. Cp3 is the purest actual PG of the bunch. His first priority is passing and controlling the game.

Hard to compare. I'm just glad we have one of them.
 
Another big thing for Kyrie is that his defense has improved about 100 fold. Whether it was due to effort, system, maturity, or a combination, it has been huge. He isn't always consistent on D, but the fact he has shown how good he can be shows how much potential he has.

That is why it is hard to compare Curry, Kyrie, Westbrook, and Cp3. They are all different players and bring different things to the table. Westbrook has a LeBron type play style, likes to play physical and take it inside. Curry's handle has improved to the 2nd best or best in the league and has been huge for him getting space to hit the three. Kyrie has the best handle in the league and best finisher in the paint. Flat out scorer and probably second best shooter at PG behind Curry. Cp3 is the purest actual PG of the bunch. His first priority is passing and controlling the game.

Hard to compare. I'm just glad we have one of them.

Kyrie could close the gap pretty fast this year even. I mean, if we win a championship this year. I know people might say well, he has LeBron, blah, blah, but if he ends up being a huge contributor, or goes game mode in the finals and wins MVP. This discussion might be a lot different come July. Never know, Wade had that breakout party in 2005 with Shaq on the team, and quickly his image was sky rocketed after that.

Very interesting to see how Kyrie does come playoff time, and hopefully he can throw off this "never been to the playoffs talk" with an NBA championship ring.
 
I think the one area kyrie needs to grow and should grow over time is his drive and kick game. It's all or nothing he needs to recognise where the help is coming from and find the open man. The one he misses often is the corner 3. Hopefully in time he will know the spots and start to generate those open jumpers
 
Kyrie is a brand new 23 year old playing like a Top 10 player in the NBA.

He's also averaging 5.8 apg/36 when LBJ is off the floor. That's nearly equivalent to Steph Curry at the same age.

Steph is now putting up 8.5 apg/36 at 26 years old, and I don't think anyone would say he isn't a "floor general."

He became one.

Long-story short, Kyrie can become whatever he wants to be. He's demonstrated the ability to be infinitely versatile. As of right now, LeBron has taken the reigns of floor general, for better or worse. But I have no doubt that Irving will improve his passing and facilitating as he ages, just as most premiere point guards do (Curry, Westbrook and even guys like Harden).
 
You realize Curry has a better percentage at the rim than Kyrie, right?

And pretty much every NBA analyst puts Curry's handles T-1 with Kyrie's soooo.

No reason to be a homer. Curry has carried a meh team to the playoffs. Kyrie had his worst season last year trying to carry a team to the playoffs. Curry at this point is a better player.

Like many have said..if you think Steph's handles and ability to finish around the rim is even close to Kyrie than I can't change your mind but your wrong IMO
 
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