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Kyrie Irving

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Well, Kyrie just quietly wrapped up one of the best age-22 seasons by a guard in league history.

Whoa, slow down there. Even TV statisticians try to limit their goofy stats of the night to 3 or 4 categories.

Do you know who Kyrie's performance reminds of this season? Himself. Kyrie's numbers at 22 look a lot like Kyrie's numbers at 19.
 
Whoa, slow down there. Even TV statisticians try to limit their goofy stats of the night to 3 or 4 categories.

Do you know who Kyrie's performance reminds of this season? Himself. Kyrie's numbers at 22 look a lot like Kyrie's numbers at 19.

Never change Jon, never change.
 
@CosmoKramer Not to take away from what Kyrie has done this season because he's been fantastic and is truly evolving into one of the league's premier point guards, but that's probably a little too many categories to cut off at exactly Kyrie's averages. It would have made more sense if you used maybe PPG > 21 (he's just under 22 PPG), APG > 5, and TS% > 58%.

WOW! I actually just plugged in my numbers and the only players to average over 21 PPG, 5 APG, and have a TS% over 58% in a single season, during which or before they turned 22, are Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Chris Webber...and now Kyrie Irving. Unbelievable.
 
Except boobie never had the skills of ball handling and finishing. He should be banned from talking Kyrie Irving ever again.

Answer me one question:

Is a "rich man's Boobie Gibson" (however you care to define that) a top-5 PG in the NBA?
 
He has to defend the 'rich man's boobie gibson' comment. There's no coming back from that.

Remarkably, he denies saying that. I'm sure he'll be back in here soon to try to explain why.
 
Remarkably, he denies saying that. I'm sure he'll be back in here soon to try to explain why.

Disingenuous much?

You claimed I said that "Kyrie was a rich man's Boobie Gibson in another thread and you couldn't even support your claim even though someone was nice enough to dig up the link to what I did say.
 
Answer me one question:

Is a "rich man's Boobie Gibson" (however you care to define that) a top-5 PG in the NBA?

Considering the PG position is the deepest in the NBA you have top 5 A, top 5 B. Being just 22 and if you think he's in the B class then he will slowly make his push as he gets into his prime.

You cannot deny Kyrie is a top 5 scorer at his position. He's a top 5 ball handler at his position. He's not a top 5 passer because he has to share with LeBron. Lebron takes assists away from him to remove him from top 5 production.

And his defense has been fucking stellar this season. Matter fact, YES! YES! YES! He is top 5.

Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Russ Westbrook
John Wall
Kyrie Fucking Irving

Dame Lillard
 
Considering the PG position is the deepest in the NBA you have top 5 A, top 5 B. Being just 22 and if you think he's in the B class then he will slowly make his push as he gets into his prime.

You cannot deny Kyrie is a top 5 scorer at his position. He's a top 5 ball handler at his position. He's not a top 5 passer because he has to share with LeBron. Lebron takes assists away from him to remove him from top 5 production.

And his defense has been fucking stellar this season. Matter fact, YES! YES! YES! He is top 5.

Steph Curry
Chris Paul
Russ Westbrook
John Wall
Kyrie Fucking Irving

Dame Lillard

No reason John Wall should be ahead of Kyrie...

Kyrie > Wall

Kyrie WS 10.4 > 7.8
Kyrie PER 21.5 > 19.9
Kyrie WS/48 .183 > .132
Kyrie TS% .583 > .523
Kyrie ORtg 117 > 105
Kyrie Net +9 > +3

Keep in mind, Kyrie's win shares are while playing next to LeBron James, the best player in the world who plays basically the same position as Kyrie as well as with Kevin Love.....

Kyrie produces more steals and far fewer turnovers per possession...

Kyrie is also on an upward growth trajectory compared to previous seasons; Wall, not so much.

Kyrie is in another tier from Wall..

I think the reason we tend to grade Wall so well is that we undervalue scoring, which is odd considering this is a score-based game.

But Walls low efficiency and sub-par 3-pt shooting really hamper him in my opinion of being able to state that he's better.

Simply averaging more assists doesn't cut it, as Kyrie would likely be putting up 7-8+ apg if LeBron deferred point duties.

Wall has historically been a better defender, but for stretches of the season Kyrie was one of the best PG defenders in the league; and I think the playoffs will demonstrate how well he can defend when motivated.

I used to have Kyrie 4th behind the MVP candidates; but having watched the season come to a close, I think my opinion has changed on that.

I have Kyrie 3rd among all point guards behind Curry and Paul and ahead of Westbrook.

My reasons for placing Irving ahead of Westbrook are largely statistical, based on optimization of each possession, and maximal efficiency. Westbrook's style of play is not conducive to beating good defensive teams, nor is it a winning style of basketball.

This isn't a knock on Westbrook insomuch as it's a recognition of the fact that while he is putting up impressive box score stats, his aggregates and drill-downs are indicative of a one-man show. With a usage rate of 38.4 (literally 47% higher than Kyrie's), I have a very hard time looking at his stats this year as anything short of playing 1-on-5, which isn't really a useful metric for comparative purposes.

When averaging his performance over the last three years, I think one gets a much clearer picture and in that, I think Kyrie's the better guard to have in the backcourt.

With that said, trade value wise, the only point guard in the league that I'd trade Kyrie for right now is Steph Curry, and even then, that's a maybe....

In fact, the only guard I'd trade Kyrie for is Steph Curry.

That goes to show, at least in my humble opinion, that Kyrie Irving truly has reached superstar status and has real MVP potential.
 
Even better you make me believe Kyrie is top 4. Even though he is still incredible at the position, I just liked that he got his team to the playoffs and won a series before Kyrie.

You hear that Jonny boy? Top 4, arguably top 3 sucka.
 
Even better you make me believe Kyrie is top 4. Even though he is still incredible at the position, I just liked that he got his team to the playoffs and won a series before Kyrie.

You hear that Jonny boy? Top 4 sucka.

Oh yeah, I mean Wall is a beast, no doubt...

But it goes to show just how good Kyrie really is.... He is a phenom. And as Chris Webber probably tells his wife and children before they go to bed.. "shh.. it's okay.. sleep good.. because Kyrie Irving is the best ball handler in the NBA.."
 
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